US Indymedia Global Indymedia Publish About us
Printed from Boston IMC : http://boston.indymedia.org/
Boston.Indymedia
IVAW Winter Soldier

Winter Soldier
Testimonies
Brad Presente

Other Local News

Spare Change News
Open Media Boston
Somerville Voices
Cradle of Liberty
The Sword and Shield

Local Radio Shows

WMBR 88.1 FM
What's Left
WEDS at 8:00 pm
Local Edition
FRI (alt) at 5:30 pm

WMFO 91.5 FM
Socialist Alternative
SUN 11:00 am

WZBC 90.3 FM
Sounds of Dissent
SAT at 11:00 am
Truth and Justice Radio
SUN at 6:00 am

Create account Log in
Comment on this article | View comments | Email this article | Printer-friendly version
News ::
WHY ARE BOSTON-INDYMEDIA CONTROLERS KEEPING VITAL NEWS OUT OF MAIN COLUMN? (english)
15 Mar 2003
Modified: 16 Mar 2003
I Looked in Vain for **Front-Column** Information on Where and When the Various Anti-Iraq War Demonstrations Were to Be Held In and Around the Boston Area. Yes - I am sure that Info was Behind Another Cursor Click on 'calender' or by running over the side-placed Newswire. Shouldn't this Info Vital to Life & Death in Iraq be Front Column?
I have found a growing complaint from Left-leaning - not Righwing, posters about Anti-Palestinian, Pro-Israeli-Annexation of Palestine Bias and therefore Pro-War destruction of Iraq, concerning Webmasters and Webeditors controlling Indymedia.

To squash the Anti-Semetic charge card being automatically played on Anybody who wants to see Israel back in it's Own country 1967 borders and wants to see the Palestinians in control of Palestine with All Israeli occupying SETTLERS OUT - I will refer you to 4 ethical and very Prominent Jewish scholars that also demand that precise Justice to the Palestinians.

The truth that everybody KNOWS but is afraid of American Israeli-Lobby backlash Anti-Semetism Card being brought out on them - to state, is this.

1. The World Trade Center was nothing else but brother Arabs attacking the biggest Arms and financial aid supporter of the Israelis who are holding their Palestinian brothers in bondage in
their own country of Palestine. If There Had Been No US Arms and Money Support For What Israel Is Doing To The Palestinians - There Would Have Been No World Trade Center Attack.

2. ::that the American-Israeli Lobby owns and dominates much of the Main-stream News Media and is SUPPRESSING and Slanting News stories to support the Israeli attempt to Annex Palestine. The prominent Jewish scholar who DOCUMENTS this charge is Israel Shamir and his article can be found

at http://www.rense.com/general35/poawer.htm

3. The Pro Iraq-War Initiative is being Vigorously pushed by the Pro American-Israeli Lobby members of Congress and the News Media. Dem-VA Rep James Moran was just forced to step down by Nancy Pelosi from his lead position in the Dem party - for saying exactly this. Has there ever been in the last 60 years in this country so MANY people in Responsible positions being accused of Anti-semetism because they criticize an actual-pro Israeli voting block? No this is about criticising ANY block of voters(Including non-Jewish voting-block members) who approve of What the COUNTRY of Israel is doing to the Palestinians.

The prominent Jewish scholars who hold these positions for just a few are Noam Chomsky and his book collaborater Prof. Herman, Dr. Norman Finklestein and Hunter College NYC and Israel Shamir.

The Israeli Army is facing a rebellion of Just officers and men from the IDF who REFUSE to serve in the Occuppied Territories abusing and killing the Palestinians at www.couragetorefuse.net

With so many Israeli people and American Jewish scholars exposing these same facts - it is not anti-semetic to point them out.

So my question is this:: On the Issues of the Iraq War and Full 1967-Borders Statehood for the Palestinians - is this same control of Media Sources creeping into to Indymedia volunteers? Was it always there? Or have Information-Containment and black-out methods just started to Take over Indymedia through Webmaster Volunteers?

Will we even be allowed to Ask these Questions on BOSTON Indymedia?

Remember BOSTON INDYMEDIA IS ONE OF THOSE THAT DROP COOKIES ON YOUR HARD DISK to trace your Net Activity - and if Boston Indymedia
is doing that - HOW do we Know that Boston Indymedia Webmasters aren't also Taking down and Listing your personal computer IP as well?

The subject of article-and-info black-out Censorship has been pointed out on Boston Indymedia for what Boston Indymedia has done to another poster Steve Devoy http://www.stop-fascism.org/freepers.htm
::: it has been pointed out on Seattle Indymedia(which is a Very Good site that Does NOT Drop Cookies on Your Computer) -
::: it has been pointed out on Maine Indymedia that is in the Process of Deciding whether it will drop Cookies on YOUR Computer.
Vermont Indymedia and Danbury ct Indymedia are too of the MOST Surveilling Indymedia sites - with Danbury even asking you to 'Register' (so they can better trace you - but they give a different reason of course)

Minniapolis/St.Paul is one of the BEST Indymedia sites that gives you all Anti-war Demonstration Event Info right on the front page Column.

Is Boston Indymedia above criticism? Wlll they Hide this News Article? (and this Article IS NEWS)

Or will they say as Maine Indymedia said," Well we are giving our time and work practically for FREE - so if you are going to criticize then Donate or Get Involved Producing this Indymedia."?

I think that, if we can, we Should Donate to Indymedia. But does this mean that we can ONLY criticise an agency or party if we are involved in assisting that agency? No that isn't reasonable.

Because if you only try to suggest a Fully uncensoring Indymedia while you are Involved with a few people there - it is much easier for them to tell you 'Forget about it'. Out in the Public Forum is the place to discuss the question of CENSORSHIP.

Let's see if this Article is given a normal place on the Newswire.
Add a quick comment
Title
Your name Your email

Comment

Text Format
Anti-spam Enter the following number into the box:
To add more detailed comments, or to upload files, see the full comment form.

Comments

LINK CORRECTION FOR ARTICLE (english)
15 Mar 2003
The CORRECT LINK for the Israeli Officers and Men who Refuse to serve in Occuppied Palestine - abusing the Palestinians there IS AT

http://www.couragetorefuse.org/
I suspect Boston IndyMedia compromised. (english)
15 Mar 2003
There have been posts in the last days that claim IP information of posters was exploited by FReepers. The vast majority of pro-Israel crap posted here is comping from FReepers. It might be time to build an alternative to IndyMedia. I'm going to look into do this.
Observer, you may be right. Let's communicate (english)
15 Mar 2003
You could be right about that. But I think that for the MOST Part Boston Indymedia has put up a First Rate, Much needed Public News site.

The Boston Indymedia People so far - have been for the most part Very Fair and even handed about giving everyone's Opinion an airing. I am grateful to Boston Indymedia for putting me on the Newswire - because I don't have much time in my life to put together an Opinion and state it. So as you can tell by reading my posts - they are full of typos and mispellings = but Still Boston IndyMedia allows me to publish and to Criticize them. As long as Boston Indymedia runs a site at this High Ethical Level - It would be shallow and small-minded to even consider making things more difficult for The Boston Indymedia People - who give of their obvious Expertise in running this site for us so Unselfishly.

At this Point 98% of what Most all the Indymedia sites and especially Boston make possible here is First Rate.

But I agree with you ((and my own Article - Which is now partially Obsolete and wrong - as I SEE NO MORE 'Boston Indymedia' cookies on my computer)) - that people must be Wary of ANY site trying to control the content on that site or trying to trace people. When that gets bad - you are right: Then it's time to look for an Alternative.

So keep my email - and if that ever happens maybe we can get together. But in my View at this time Boston Indymedia is a First Rate Indymedia site - and is probably for the most part fair with poster.
_________________________________________________

However - the 'Anonymous' Backlash to ANY criticism of Boston Indymedia has started almost immediately. I saw this same thing happen to Indymedia Criticizers on Seattle and on Maine.... Take a look at this Article Summary that just came up as an Article ::::


""This Indymedia site looks like talk show trash (english) John Z 4:00pm Sat Mar 15 '03

What's going on at this site? I come here for information on actions, not this childish spite.
This Indymedia site looks like talk show trash (english) (full story) ""

Same thing happened on Main Indymedia. An 'anonymous' poster called 'some guy' - jumped in with a very Angry response - but it was not so trashy as the above angry 'John Z'.

Such people try to intimidate and Shut up all criticism - as just 'spite' and such.

However John Z, discussions about possible censorship and tracing of the poster are not 'spite' - if they are supported by documentation - they are NEWS, man.
right on (english)
15 Mar 2003
Yeah, that Tufts story has been in the center column forever! My group pulled off a huge banner-drop on the front door of the statehouse, and that didn't get any notice! Then there was the civil disobedience at the Federal Building yesterday, and nothing! What's goin' on here?
See also:
http://pgan.apan.org
Look For Alternative Cookie Traces also (english)
15 Mar 2003
One way a site can keep track of your internest activity would be to have a 'working' relationship with OTHER Cookie powered REPORTING Agencis like:

'centorport' and

'mediaplex'

that would come onto your computer after PUBLISHING on a site.

- there is NO Reason to find those types either on a Public News site like Indymedia. And I don't believe I have as yet.

But I recommend that everyone check their computers for what is Left on them after they interact with ANY site.
Negative responses to complaints: a bad idea (english)
16 Mar 2003
>>>>What's going on at the Boston IMC
Matt Williams 7:41pm Sat Mar 15 '03 (Modified on 7:57pm Sat Mar 15 '03)
third_aardvark(at)hotmail.com comment#11750
..........
I'm part of the Boston IMC collective. To respond to a number of points:

Yes, we know that there's a god-awful amount of right-wing trash being posted to the newswire.>> We're trying to figure out what to do about it. Technically, we can hide articles, but it's actually rather time-consuming (especially if there are a lot of them) and we have a very small number of volunteers, who are busy doing other things (both with the IMC and in other aspects of their lives).> Any constructive suggestions (as opposed to complaints) would be welcome. >We do not, as a rule, put announcements of up-coming events in the center column. The center column is meant for news. The act-ma list serve and webpage is intended to serve the Boston-area for event announcements and it would be really pointless to duplicate that....... >The article on the banner drop (which I did read) did not get into the center column because it just focused on what you guys did and did not really talk in a substantial way about the issues. .......... It's not that you shouldn't talk about the cool things you did (the banner drop article was pretty cool) but you also need to explain to the unitiated why you're doing them. An exception was made for the Tufts article because of the behavior of the police.>>As for why there aren't more new articles in the center column more frequently, it's because we don't have a lot of volunteers who are doing reporting on a regular basis.>You may be getting the idea that we need more volunteers. You would be right. If you would like to see the Boston IMC get better and you habe the time to volunteer with us, feel free to come to a meeting and help us out.
reply to Lance (english)
16 Mar 2003
OK, Lance, you're right that complaints without constructive suggestions can be valuable. I apologize. But we know that there are problems, we just are having trouble figuring out what to do about them. I think I just got frustrated with more complaints about what we already know are problems. Additionally, I have no idea if this is your intent, but your writing style is rather abrasive, which didn't help any. You sound like you're angry with us. OK, fine, may be we're not doing everything perfectly, but have you considered trying to put yourself in our shoes--with a limited number of volunteers and a limited amount of time? I'm not saying you won't have complaints then (hell, I have complaints), but I think you might bring them up in a more sympathetic-sounding manner.

You apparently don't like our editorial policy. Well, it's been hashed out over meetings and e-mail lists over a number of years. This is what to us, as the most active members of the IMC, seems to work best. It's a judgement call which we recognize not everyone will agree with. Sorry. I don't think that highlighting every article about an anti-war action is helpful. We want to get information out to people, and that means articles that address substansive issues.

Yes, you are right that everyone who posts a news article should be considered a volunteer. What I meant--and I should have been clearer--is people who are committed to trying to go out and report on events on a regular basis, as opposed to just something they showed up to or helped organize and thought was neat. We got a lot of people who write articles once and that's it--which is wonderful, but it would help us out a lot if more people were willing to make another level of commitment, although I certainly realize that many people are already really committed to a lot of other things.

As for posting upcoming events to the center column, that's something we decided we wouldn't do. We do have links to info about protests on the day the invasion of Iraq starts at the top of the left-hand column. That seems like a fair compromise to me.

You're right I should not have assumed everyone knows what act-ma is. It's a moderated list-serve of progressive events in the Boston area. You can join by sending a blank e-mail to act-ma-subscribe (at) igc.topica.com. There's a link to their listings through the calendar page.

You are welcome to come to an IMC meeting. You could post the minutes here if you thought that was useful. We make decisions by consensus. I must say, I wouldn't take it too kindly if a new person came in and began attacking the way we do things without listening to where we're at now. If people come to meetings, we assume they are open to becoming involved in the work of maintaining the IMC, not just criticizing us. We've put in a lot of hard work on this stuff. Even if you don't agree with our decisions, we'd like it if you'd at least respect the work we've done. This doesn't mean you can't criticize us--please, just do so respectfully. We're supposedly in this struggle together--let's act like it, even when we disagree.
Response to Matt's reply: Thanks and yr right (english)
16 Mar 2003
Thanks for replying and talking about my suggestions and complaints, Matt.

And you are right about the necessity to Contain RightWing Disrupting/Flood posters to save Indymedia. I was wrong about that. I don't have much time to post - and I won't be posting much more if anything on here until the War starts. So I hadn't seen the destructive posting Flood until last night.

But I think that you mustn't just start erasing/censoring these government-conformist-media fools. If you do - it could lead to a process of censoring many people that Some in Indymedia I know would disagree with.
For instance the American-Israeli Lobby has tried to squash criticism of their media push to send us into war on Iraq - on the charge of anti-semitism. It is not anti-semitic to criticize them - but there could be some in Indymedia that feel (or 'Say') that it is anti-semitic and urge censorship on that charge.

I believe that we(Indymedia collective members and common contributors to Indymedia) should Set the Ethical Example for these people. And not censor as the right-wing and government media presses do. These rightwing Flooders can be contained behind one cursor click Right Wing page on this site. The concentrated site of all the non-cognitive conformists together in one place will make their poverty of honesty and character obvious - and yet they would not be censored.

On subject that you feel my posting style seems abrasive
to you and a number of others - you may be right on that too. I don't want abrasivness to be the first thing that people notice when they read what I write. I hope and want the perception that I attempt to keep to factual issues and that I criticize in the hope of improving something to be the things that a reader first senses. But it may be as you say - that the manner in which I present things irritates people. I believe all I can do to improve that is to think about it as I write - but if I worry about that too much I will no longer be able to post in the short time that I have available to post. I will try to keep it in the back of my mind as I write - but I can't promise that you will feel that I am writing more in a way that you would approve of.

I think that the main Good thing to come out of this discussion that we have had in 'Comments' here is that it proves to Indymedia readers that those in authority in Boston Indymedia-collective are willing to listen to and to consider even carrying out some of the suggestions that are offered by non-member contributers.

The Indymedia-collective does the real work of making this possible - and I think that those of us who feel that Indymedia is important to us should Pay the collective for what they do. Of course that would complicate things in that in would require accountants and They would have to be paid. However the truth of real things that work is never simple.

It may be not often considered at collective meetings but the posting contributer to Indymedia (especially those that make sense) who post local event or little-known political facts are Also Vital to the life of Indymedia.
If everything prominent were all to Come down from the Indymedia collective as it does in a commercial site - the readership here would nearly vanish.

Such people who do read and write here want to make sure that the collective continues - but the collective should try to be responsive enough not to drive thoughtful people away even if their posting manner seems at times abrasive or even if they make complaints that are irritating. Even in a family its necessary to tolerate things that we find not so pleasant in order to be able to work for the greator good.

So I at least very much appreciate BostonIndymedia and still feel confidence in them - Because of your responses.

And I thank Boston Indymedia for stopping the practice of putting cookies on.

The one thing I still feel in disagreement with you and the Editorial staff is contained in this part of your response to me::
>>
>>>As for posting upcoming events to the center column, that's something we decided we wouldn't do. We do have links to info about protests on the day the invasion of Iraq starts at the top of the left-hand column. That seems like a fair compromise to me.

You're right I should not have assumed everyone knows what act-ma is. It's a moderated list-serve of progressive events in the Boston area. You can join by sending a blank e-mail to act-ma-subscribe (at) igc.topica.com. There's a link to their listings through the calendar page.
Response to Matt's reply: Thanks and yr right (english)
16 Mar 2003
Thanks for replying and discussing my suggestions and complaints, Matt.

And you are right about the necessity to Contain RightWing Disrupting/Flood posters to save Indymedia. I was wrong about that. I don't have much time to post - and I won't be posting much more if anything on here until the War starts. So I hadn't seen the destructive posting Flood until last night.

But I think that you mustn't just start erasing/censoring these government-conformist-media fools. If you do - it could lead to a process of censoring many people that Some in Indymedia I know would disagree with.
For instance the American-Israeli Lobby has tried to squash criticism of their media push to send us into war on Iraq - on the charge of anti-semitism. It is not anti-semitic to criticize them - but there could be some in Indymedia that feel (or 'Say') that it is anti-semitic and urge censorship on that charge.

I believe that we(Indymedia collective members and common contributors to Indymedia) should Set the Ethical Example for these people. And not censor as the right-wing and government media presses do. These rightwing Flooders can be contained behind one cursor click Right Wing page on this site. The concentrated site of all the non-cognitive conformists together in one place will make their poverty of honesty and character obvious - and yet they would not be censored.

On subject that you feel my posting style seems abrasive
to you and a number of others - you may be right on that too. I don't want abrasivness to be the first thing that people notice when they read what I write. I hope and want the perception that I attempt to keep to factual issues and that I criticize in the hope of improving something to be the things that a reader first senses. But it may be as you say - that the manner in which I present things irritates people. I believe all I can do to improve that is to think about it as I write - but if I worry about that too much I will no longer be able to post in the short time that I have available to post. I will try to keep in the back of my mind as I write - but I can't promise that you will feel that I am writing more in a way that you would approve of.

I think that the main Good thing to come out of this discussion that we have had in 'Comments' here is that it proves to Indymedia readers that those in authority in Boston Indymedia are willing to listen to and to consider even carrying out some of the suggestions that are offered by non-member contributers.

The Indymedia-collective does the real work of making this possible - and I think that those of us who feel that Indymedia is important to us should Pay the collective for what they do. Of course that would complicate things in that in would require accountant and They would have to be paid. However the truth of real things that work is never simple.

It may be not often considered at collective meetings but the posting contributer to Indymedia (especially those that make sense) who post local event or little-known political facts are Also Vital to the life of Indymedia.
If everything prominent were all to Come down from the Indymedia collective as it does in a commercial site - the readership here would nearly vanish.

Such people who do read and write here want to make sure that the collective continues - but the collective should try to be responsive enough not to drive thoughtful people away even if their posting manner seems at times abrasive or even if they make complaints that are irritating. Even in a family its necessary to tolerate things that we find not so pleasant in work for the greator good.

So I at least very much appreciate BostonIndymedia and still feel confidence in them - Because of your responses.

And I thank Boston Indymedia for stopping the practice of putting cookies on.

The one thing I still feel in disagreement with you and the Editorial staff is contained in the part of your response to me that rejects the idea of putting Vital notice and contact information to Anti-War events on the Front Column page of BostonIndymedia.

I think to force Indymedia readers to go elsewhere to find out about such Vital anti-War information - As where and When they can Contact and Join these events is Contrary to the Spirit and mandate of Indymedia. For Indymedia if nothing else is Current Information. Having to go to another page or even Subscribe to another site to get Information about such Vital current events as When and How to get to Anti War activities and events - I'm sorry but that just plays into the hands of the Pro-War faction.

If you go to the Minniapolis/St.Paul Indymedia site - I don't think you will find it at all inferior to our BostonIndymedia site - yet you will find that they list all the Upcoming Anti-War activities and events right on their Front Column. And we should be able to expect that of Boston Indymedia also.
By not making it possible to easily find out about the Upcoming Anti-war events Boston Indymedia harms the Anti-war effort.

However in every other way I hope that you can see that I support in this post Boston Indymedia and that I appreciate - and I believe others with these concerns also are grateful, for your consideration of them here.
This time itwas thePrograms fault csg 2 posts (english)
16 Mar 2003
The first time I posted the posting program came up with a Screen message that said in effect - That the program was Unable to post my post due to a 'Fatal' numbered exception of some kind. Then when I went back and rewrote the end of the post and reposted - it posted twice.

The First message from this site definitely said my first post 'Could not' be posted. So that is what happened.
event announcements (english)
16 Mar 2003
Lance, your tone was a lot less abrasive in this last posting. I can see how you might have been upset before if you thought the Boston IMC collective was nonresponsive to the concerns of progressive Bostonians who use the site. We try, but sometimes we just can't keep up with everyone. And people have made conflicting requests of us--some people oppose any efforts to inappopriate stuff on the newswire, while others want us to do so vigorously.

On the listing of event announcements: The reason we don't do it, is that we can't possibly list every event. There are too many in Boston (which is probably a good sign about Boston's activist scene). We'd have to be selective, and that's really difficult to establish fair criteria for. So, especially given the existence of act-ma, we decided not to post any at all to the center column. We don't even put notices about *our own* events there--we put them in the left-hand column. If you click on the underlined parts of the anti-war notice, I believe you'll find links to more information. You can also always bookmark the act-ma page (of course, I'm assuming you have your own computer and you're not working off one at school or the library or something--which may be mistaken).

As for paying us--well, I don't think we're expecting any such thing, but if any one wants to donate to the Boston IMC, there's a link at the top of the page with more information on how to do that :)

Finally, with all this talk about hiding articles, it's occured to me that there might be one source of misunderstanding. Sometimes you click on an article and you get "no story to tell yet". That's not us--it's a glitch in the program that our tech team hasn't figured out how to solve yet. Once we see an article that this has happened to we can fix it. We often won't notice them though, but if you e-mail us (see the "about us" link), we'll fix it.