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Commentary :: International
The Difference Between Religion and Statecraft
02 Jun 2006
Why Orthodox Jews are opposed to the Zionist "State"

First some introductions;

1) What is "The people of Israel" ?

The people of Israel have existed for thousands of years.

It has its own particular, essential, nature.

The Torah is the source of its essential nature.

Without Torah and faith there is no people of Israel.

Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the people of Israel.

The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine service.

Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.

2) What is Zionism?

Zionism is a relatively new thing.

It has only existed for a century.

Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the people of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.

Their misfortune is lack of what other nations have. i.e. a state and army.

Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.

This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist though, and among the leaders of the Zionist state, that through changing the nature and character of the people of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.

The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

FIRST -- Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as is explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reason's the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel, is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

The Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel s in the period of the Zionists. And it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.
SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they panned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Ha Meitsor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today ,they incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given y Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant (May we be spared).
THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry, Lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist state. Whereas many people have left the Zionist state to live under better conditions in other lands.
FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.
FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits. And even then very few people respond.
SIXTH -- The Zionists State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry lives in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)
SEVENTH -- The Zionists state could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist state.
EIGHTH -- The Zionist state is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.
NINTH -- The Zionists state persecute all Jews who are loyal to their faith.
TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.
ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.
TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah. And the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.
It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.

The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.

They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.

The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.

The Zionist terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.

That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.

Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.

We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.
1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. And in every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.
2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.
3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. And all the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.

However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.

Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.

Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force. With fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.

Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist state will cease to exist.

It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.

Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. And the truth will always remain the truth, by no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one are three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.

Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that state is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that state. Zionism and its state have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.
Visit: Jews United Against Zionism

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Re: The Difference Between Religion and Statecraft
02 Jun 2006
The tower of babel. Lets make for ourselves a name, so that we will never be scattered.
Lies for Ignoramuses About Jews
03 Jun 2006
A relatively tiny portion of the Hasidic sect of Orthodox Jews, the Satmar, and only some of those (who are mostly in Brooklyn and in a community in the Catskill Mts in NY) dont recognize Israel because they are waiting for the Messiah who will really put the Jews in charge. Frankly, if I supported the Palosetinians, I'd make the best deal I could with the vast majority of Orthodox and the secular Jews who run Israel. The Messiah truly will be a murdering thieving Zionist of all Zionist. The Jews will Be Supreme, if you believe these wackos. But hey, let Troll and Jews United Against Judaism hitch their moth-eaten wagon to the Messiah guys. You'll be s-o-r-r-y!
Re: The Difference Between Religion and Statecraft
03 Jun 2006
As Jesus put it, He who sowed is not always the one who reaps. Messiah will save the ones who accept God and leave all the damned for another to cast down into the lake of fire after the mature thorns have been separated from the mature grains. It is not Jesus' job to accuse you, but one will come who will accuse you, and Moses, in whom you trust. Moses was a self admitted servant of Satan, Ex, 19 v 5.

Hmmm, ...?

Snicker snicker.
Zionist:Judaism as Pat Robertson:Christianity
03 Jun 2006
Separation of church and state was not invented by the founding fathers you know. legitimate Juadaism and legitimate christianity

Jesus, or Yeshua, shared some things in common with these modern orthodox jews. He believed that political Judaism was corrupt and tainted religious practice and belief. Jesus railed against the priests and king (Pharisees, Sadducees, Herod, etc.) who were all collaborators with the Roman Empire in exchange for being kept in power (kind of like Saddam in his heyday). Money changers in the temple were kicked out by Jesus because they also sought personal gain by exploiting poeple's faith. Unlike the modern day orthodox Jews who follow scripture to the letter however, Jesus was a revolutionary thinker AND doer. He said, you know, to heck with ritual and all this jazz--faith is in your heart, and you don't need priests to be connected with God. Jesus believed God was a loving God, and anyone who believes in God and does not think God is a loving God is kind of a masochist if you ask me. Jesus also believed that Jews did not have a monopoly on holiness--that God loved all his creation equally, and forgave the sins of those who truly repented. Jesus also believed that the love of money was the root of all evil, that we should strive to love, not just tolerate our enemies.

Does any of that sound like anything practiced or preached by modern christians? Of course not. Nor should Zionism resemble real Judaism to anyone. We've simply reached one of those really really corrupt points in history, similar to Jesus' time, where people are so blinded by material excess and misled by false prophets that a reckoning is at hand.

The current powers that be know full well that the Judeo Christian narrative can thus be exploited, so it makes sense that these folks, Evangelicals and Zionists, feed off of each other in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Unfortunately, they are so evil and so blind that they don't realize that what they think is themselves exploiting a religious narrative is in fact a real fulfillment of prophecy, which is nothing if not the collective spiritual wisdom of mankind predicting the results of human folly.

The same concept can be found in the Greek concept of hubris--excessive pride among flawed humans pretending to god-like status has the potential to bring on the harshest calamities.

Religion is not entirely "voodoo" you know, and for that matter voodoo is not entirely "voodoo" if you catch my drift.

Knowledge and wisdom go hand in hand, and are often guarded by greedy insecure folks who see monopolizing truth as the only way to keep themselves lording it over their fellows.

The same stories repeat over and over, and over and over the cycle plays out. This is what genuinely religious people understand. It is a wisdom that atheists find difficult to grasp, unless they approach it from a more palatable philosophy to them, like Buddhism, which is alien enough to overcome their fear of the "occult".

Truly religious people would never fight over their differences, period. Stop blaming religion, and start blaming the exploiters of the ignorant--they, if anyone, do evil.
Jesus Was NOT a Nice Guy: He wansn't a Guy
04 Jun 2006
Jesus said he was god. He was not trying to hook folks more directly wth God. He said if you want something from God, including salvation, you had to go thru Jesus. That's because Jesus said he was god.
Lot's of mythic characters say they are God or part God. You are entitled to be a Christian. I am entitiled to consider it one more intesting literary myth that shows that people create reality, not some wish fantasy like God, Jesus Christ, Allah etc.

But please be accurate in what you portray Jesus to be. The Jews always prayed directly to a unitary non-human spirit god. They got a command from Jesus to take a Detour: thru Jesus. Some Jews thought that was fine and lots of Gentiles obviously did, given the success of Christianity over centuries.

Jesus though demanded that you believe he was God and that if you wanted to talk to the "Father" side of God, i.e., the old testament spirit, you went thru Jesus.