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News ::
Somerville Projectionists Update (6/19) (english)
20 Jun 2003
Modified: 03 Jul 2003
It has been over six weeks since we made our unconditional offer to return to work, which management was legally obligated to honor. Despite agreeing to our unconditional offer, all pro-union projectionists continue to be denied shifts and remain illegally locked-out.
THE BALLOTS HAVE BEEN CAST, BUT THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES...
Somerville Projectionists Update (6/19)


Projectionists at the Somerville Theatre continue demand union recognition. We feel that is only through the collective power of the union that we can effectively combat our exploitation at the hands of Mel Fraiman. Projectionists at the Somerville Theatre are paid minimum wage, are not offered benefits, and work in an unhealthy and undemocratic environment. We cannot afford to live on poverty wages, so the struggle must go on!

THE NLRB ELECTION

On Wednesday, June 18, we took part in the charade of a supposedly fair NLRB election and casted our ballots. Considering the election was stacked in management's favor due to the voting eligibility of scab replacements (we believe that all are friends of the manager, hired specifically to vote anti-union), we are not especially optimistic of winning union recognition through these means.

Regardless of the final outcome of this election, the results may not be known for some time, because the votes of the unliscenced scabs who replaced us have all been contested. Mel Fraiman continues to have to opportunity to voluntarily recognize the union. His refusal to do so is a big slap in the face to the community members, trade unionists and the city aldermen that continue to support our struggle.

THE LOCK-OUT CONTINUES

It has been over six weeks since we made our unconditional offer to return to work, which management was legally obligated to honor. Despite agreeing to our unconditional offer, all pro-union projectionists continue to be denied shifts and remain illegally locked-out.

THE THEATER WAS (IS?) OPERATING ILLEGALLY

Approximately two weeks ago the Somerville Theatre was temporarily shut down by an inspector from the Department of Public Safety for using unliscenced projectionists. It is now public record that none of the scabs were liscenced! Since then, two scab projectionists have been liscensed. We believe that the rest remain unliscensed and may be illegally scheduled for shifts. We encourage people to call State Inspector Tom Rogers to report the Somerville Theatre's continued disregard for public safety: 617-727-3200 (ext 25206).

JOIN US ON THE PICKET LINE

Locked-out projectionists continue with regular pickets in front of the Somerville Theatre. Monday thru Friday we are leafletting from 11:30am until 2pm; on Friday and Saturday evenings, we have larger pickets from 5pm until 8pm. Please join us!

PLEASE CONTINUE BOYCOTTING THE SOMERVILLE AND CAPITOL THEATRES

We ask that supporters continue to honor the picket line by boycotting the Somerville Theatre and Mel Fraiman’s other theatre, the Arlington Capitol Theatre. We also ask that promoters, artists and performers also honor this boycott by refusing to book events at these venues until the lock-out ends and the union is recognized.

AS ALWAYS, KEEP THE PRESSURE ON!

Tell the management of the Somerville Theatre to cut the crap and recognize the projectionists union! If the votes of the unliscenced scabs are somehow deemed legit, Mel will have won the election through underhanded tactics. It is clear that a majority of the six projectionists that should be voting are still in favor of unionizing. We will not go away until Mel recognizes the union in one way or another!

Mel Fraiman (owner) - Phone: (617) 484-6947 Car Phone:(617) 460-6909
Personal Fax: (617) 484-5823, FEI office - (781) 648-6022

If you cannot reach Mel on his personal phone, please try his real
estate office Chatham Light/Dunster Realty - Phone (617) 354-4466
Fax (617) 354- 5299

Ian Judge (general manager) - Somerville Theatre Phone: (617) 625-
4088 Direct to manager phone: (617)625-0261 Fax: (617) 625-5496 or
ijudge (at) feitheatres.com

You can also write a letter on our behalf:

Mel Fraiman (residence): 48 Village Hill Road,Belmont, MA 02478

Fraiman Enterprises Inc./Chatham Light Realty/Dunster Realty: 15
Story St. Cambridge, MA 02138

OTHER WAYS TO SUPPORT OUR STRUGGLE

The projectionists have not been able to work for over six weeks now. If you would like to make a donation to our campaign for union recognition please visit the paypal account link below:

https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=cac%40linefeed.org&item_name=Proj¤cy_code=USD

We also have a mailing address:

Somerville Projection Workers
PO Box 442075
Somerville, MA 02144
(any checks or money orders should be made out "Cash")

Solidarity,
Somerville Theatre Projectionists

Pissed_Off_Projectionists (at) yahoo.com
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what's your spin on this? (english)
20 Jun 2003
i have only one question for you gentlemen. in previous remarks you have said that the unsafe conditions had been going on for quite sometime , yet after one of you realized this you went and asked another friend to join you to work at the theatre and them as you say unsafe conditions still existed and you were getting nowhere you asked yet another friend to join you to work in these same unsafe conditions. my question is , if it was so unsafe to work there and nothing was being done , why would you ask not one but two friends to join you working there? something stinks like hell and i believe the gig is up guys, come on what's your response?
public safety???? (english)
20 Jun 2003
if you people are so concerened about public safety, why then do you go to WTO protests and cause riots? why do you attack busses? i know that the busses had white supremists on it, but alot of innocent poeple could have been hurt. throwing molotovs in quebec at the police isnt showing much concern for "public safety". also why dont you answer the last post when they asked about inviting your friends to work there. this seems like you had a plan to start shit since day one.
move on...................... (english)
20 Jun 2003
why dont you all just move on to whatever pet cause is cool this week. i'm sure there are some oppressed hot dog vendors in new york you can go speak for.
donations? (english)
20 Jun 2003
does the i.r.s. know how much money you have collected so far and do you have an accounting of your expenses?
lisenced? (english)
20 Jun 2003
you say the projectionists at the theatre were'nt lisenced until recently , but trith be told you 3 did'nt have lisences while you worked at the theatre and did'nt get them till someone from your union told you you would need them. lets be truthful.
re: dontations (english)
20 Jun 2003
you really think that they're going to pay taxes? they're against the government, unless its when they actually need to use the government for something the need. hypocrites. what they need is a nice long audit.
the scab (english)
20 Jun 2003
The Scab

After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.

A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.

No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commision in the british army. The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his family and his class.

Author --- Jack London (1876-1916)
you don't know jack! (english)
20 Jun 2003
hey jack, don't you know that no matter how much people try they always want to pick at that scab? in other words, how we going to miss you if you won't go away?
...the struggle continues (english)
20 Jun 2003
come on , what the hell do you snotnosed kids know about stuggles? why don't you act like real men , take responsibility for your lives and become part of society instead of trying to take advantage of those who do and have for a living ? grow the fuck up!
jack london (english)
20 Jun 2003
that jack london piece meant somethin when he wrote it. times are different and you work in a fucking theater. bring your struggle to somewhere where its really needed. go to california and help farm workers, go to asia and liberate kids from sweatshops. do something besides whine about playing movies and eating popcorn.
nice job (english)
20 Jun 2003
you know, if you're gonna post under multiple names to make it look like people other than you are against the projectionists, you could at least space you post out over time a little more. also, you shouldn't keep posting from the same ip adress. it might look a little more believable.
Seriously... (english)
20 Jun 2003
Y'all must really be feeling the pinch, eh? By your frantic posts here, you would think you were scared shitless. Afraid the the Unfair Labor Practice will be found in the projectionists' favor, and you'll be forced to share your workspace with a bunch of dangerous anarchists? Or maybe one of your guys opened their stupid mouths and blew the whole election for you? Or is it the local politicians putting pressure on you to settle this thing in order to keep Davis Square free of any further pickets and disruption?

By the way, if any of the scab projectionists are reading this, we got wind of a rumor that Mel was thinking about going digital. Feeling secure in your jobs now that you screwed the rest of us over? I would think we would all have a better chance keeping our jobs if we stood together, rather than you spineless bastards trying to stab us in the back...

See ya on the picket line!
woohoo digital!!! (english)
20 Jun 2003
one could only hope that he would go digital. superior picture quality, and all that. at a second run theater even! it would cost millions to go fully digital in there. wow if you believed that rumor you must believe that people actually take you seriously.
what a joke (english)
20 Jun 2003
i don't work at or for the theatre or its owners and i'm not on your side either.who i am is someone who is smart enough to know how to make his own way in life and make his own deal with an employer without having to rely on having to pay for a spokesperson (union). i've actually have gone to work in union shops and when the time came refused to join the union and ended up making my own and better deal with my employer. as for your politicians , i'm willing to bet if they had checked you all out like they should have done before giving you their support they would have only supported your right to form a union . that resolution is'nt worth the paper it was written on and those who signed it will regret it votewise come the next election. as far as the mayor and her support goes , it does'nt take an idiot to realize she would support hookers andpanhandlers if they were trying to unionize, again a joke of support- no vote for you mizz mayor!play all the games you boys want , just grow up will ya?
whose side are you on? (english)
20 Jun 2003
you people continuosly say that you are either on the side of the projectionists or the side of the owners, well i have news for you all this is another side and that is the side of people who are tired of being abused everytime we have to walk by the theatre and have to put up with your crap. maybe its time for that third party to do a little sidewalk cleaning of it's own. let's put litter in it's place.
dumb (english)
20 Jun 2003
like, i said, if you want to pretend to be different people, space out postings with more time and post from different computers, using a different ip address.
Keep talking... (english)
20 Jun 2003
Third parties to deal with us? It almost sounds as if you are threatening us with violence. Of course, considering you work at the theater and we are in the middle of a labor dispute you should think twice about shooting your mouth off from a trackable IP address. Doesn't seem like Mel's lawyer has coached you all very well. Every time one of you opens your mouths, you end up shooting yourselves in the foot. See ya back at work...
Yes, keep talking... (english)
20 Jun 2003
The funniest part of all this is that Mel could've avoided this whole mess if he was such a stubborn ass and just recognized the union when we asked nicely. So he would've had to pay us a few more dollars an hour and let us do our own scheduling. Maybe a sick day here and there. Big deal. This is what he has spent tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers fees, lost business, and police details to prevent?
ok whats my IP? (english)
21 Jun 2003
whats my IP address? if you can trace it, you can tell me what it is.
tracing an ip (english)
21 Jun 2003
you're not kidding anybody. sure you might be able to see IP addresses. that is if you are the webmaster of this site. you can tell what kind of computer made the post and what type of browser they used. but you cant trace it to a specific computer. try tracing an IP address to a person. the goverment had to fight a lengthly court battle to get that info. i dont even believe you have access to the server logs that have the info. stop making up stories.
haha (english)
21 Jun 2003
you're right, i don't have access to the ip logs on this website. i was just taking a guess, and judging by your responses, i was right.
wow (english)
21 Jun 2003
the scab wrote:

"i've actually have gone to work in union shops and when the time came refused to join the union and ended up making my own and better deal with my employer."

wow, you really are a piece of shit.
scab (english)
21 Jun 2003
if making my own better deal with ownership and not having to rely on union reps who only take your dues and can't get me a better deal is being a piece of shit then by all means call me elephant dung , what do i care? mean while keep paying those dues and hopefully you'll get that 3% over 3 years and get to keep that shit job after all.if i'm a piece of shit then that must make you a puffed up smigeon of blow fish shit. see ya at the movies sucker.
yep (english)
22 Jun 2003
the scab gurgled:

"if making my own better deal with ownership and..."

yes, if you sold-out your co-workers you are an absolute piece of shit. i don't care care how much you got. if your co-workers got less than they would have gotten with your support than you are a piece of shit and parasite that lives off of the struggles of workers that came before you and deserves to be taken out back into the parking lot and treated with some union justice.

i will admit that there are union locals out there that are corrupt and the reps will sell out the rank-and-file without a second thought. however, that is not the case with the local we are trying to organize with.

the scabs who sold us out, did so in order to retain a minumum wage job with no benefits. they alligned themselves with the management instead of the members of their class, hoping for a false reward. maybe a few years down the road when they've matured a bit. they'll look back and see how fucked up their decision was.
your spin? (english)
22 Jun 2003
hey, over here, ya you , i'm still waiting for you guys to answer my question on the top of the page. it seems the truth would cuase you yet to try and make up yet another lie. what's a matter , cat got your tongue?
here ya go (english)
22 Jun 2003
well ya see sometimes people take a job because they have to in order to survive. for us, the openings at the theatre came at a time when each of really needed a job quick, plain and simple. i'm sure we would have all liked to take a job somewhere else, like fresh pond or coolidge corner, where the pay is higher, but they didn't have any openings. once we had the jobs at the somerville theatre we had the option of fighting to make our work condition and pay better and we took that option.
your spin (english)
22 Jun 2003
that's a good story but i can't believe that if things were that bad that you would invite friends to work there too. that and all theatres are always on the look-out for good help , it's not like this was your only option. nice try though.
whatever (english)
22 Jun 2003
its not like the theater was the only job opening in the greater boston area. if the pay was so bad you should have taken a job at a store24. they pay their overnight people over 10 an hour. you could have did that until something opened up that you wanted to take. sometimes in life you dont always get to do what you want to do.
i read in a previous post that you wanted to set your own hours. who the fuck gets to do that? the only people i know that can do that, own their own businesses. as for the union being this great thing.
i was in a union in a factory i worked at. you know what they did for me? absolutly nothing exept take money out of my paycheck. they promised all sorts of stuff when they approached us, but didnt deliver. i cant say what they will or wont do for you. be careful whatever you end up doing. as for wanting to work at coolidge or fresh pond, go work there now. you're in the union.
YOUR SPIN (english)
22 Jun 2003
it would seem to me guys that your credability is waning fast. one guy lies about it and then the other swears to it. admit it you were all out for some kind of fast patcheck to bankroll your your summer and the plan blew up in your face. why should anyone give you guys money , so you can have an easy summer while you sleep late and protest a couple hours a day? get real.
you're pathetic (english)
22 Jun 2003
mr. i hate the working-class wrote:

"it would seem to me guys that your credability is waning fast."

and what exactly do you base this on? just because you proclaim it on an indy media thread that maybe a dozen people have looked at doesn't make it so.

waning fast? are kidding me? i guess that's why tickets sales appear to be less than half of what they normally are. i guess that's why every union in the city has thrown their support our way. i guess that's why all 11 aldermen in somerville passed a resolution in support of our right to unionize and be payed a living wage.

guess what? everyone knows that some of the projectionists have been active in the labor movement, tenants movements, etc. we've never denied that, but as far as i'm aware, there aren't any laws against activists joining unions or fighting for a decent wage in their own workplace.

your pathetic attempts to smear us are futile!
............. (english)
22 Jun 2003
the parasite wrote:

"as for wanting to work at coolidge or fresh pond, go work there now. you're in the union."

again, those theatre don't have any openings for projectionists. besides, we enjoy being a thorn in your side way too much to leave the somerville theatre :P
Blah, Blah, Blah... (english)
22 Jun 2003
I know y'all are used to spinless high schoolers who complain up and down about the pay and working conditions but never get off their asses to do anything about it. Now you are faced with people under your employment who don't think twice about actually fight back, have a bit of organizing experience under their belts, and are not prepared to back down until they win. Kinda sucks, huh?

If I were Mel, the first thing I would do is immediately fire the incompetent manager (ahem, Ian Judge) who hired these "dangerous anarchist" labor agitators in the first place, in order to ensure this never happens again. Clearly he lacks judgement when it comes to hiring new employees! Following this, I would negotiate with the projectionists and try and rectify the situation and maybe give a few concessions to bring this dispute to an end. How much could we possibly ask for anyways?

Mel's stuck with us, so he should make the best of it and not antagonize the situation. Believe it or not, we are actually quite reasonable at the negotiating table. We are certainly prepared to de-escalate our end if he is prepared to recognize our union and sit down to the negotiating table like a civilized human being.

In fact, despite our supposed "credibility problem", we have a meeting tomorrow with Mel Fraiman, a few city Aldermen, and the mayor. We do not have high hopes, but who knows, maybe he is prepared to come around. We'll see.
meeting (english)
23 Jun 2003
the mayor and some of the aldermen? maybe you can ask them to grt you a union job with the police or fire dept.?or maybe a job as a school teacher? oh ,wait a minute , they are cutting those union jobs with the city. oh well ,maybe you can get them jobs as projectionists.
union justice (english)
23 Jun 2003
i expected you to come up with the union justice in the parking lot line just as i expected them to come at me once i threw a fly in thier ointment. the only difference was they sent little boys to do a mans job and after i took them out i took the union rep out, end of problem. you want justice , just make sure who you are dealing with before you put your neck in the noose.
question (english)
23 Jun 2003
here's a question... if you don't have any connection to the theatre (which i don't believe), then what is your stake in this matter? i mean, how would the projectionists being granted union recognition adversely affect you? why would frantically post nonesense in an effort to reach someone else out there of low intelligence like yourself that might listen to your drivel? why do this if you have absolutely no stake in this matter? do you search the internet all day looking for people that are on strike, so that you can pathetically attempt to undermine them?

i don't even know why i am asking these question, because i know that you are involved in this matter, but i'd like to see how creative you can be in explaining your self.
answer (english)
23 Jun 2003
there's no creativity in this answer at all. this has nothing to do with you "wanting" to join a union as it does for using that as an excuse to hide behind.i saw what happened that first night and the first thing that came to my mind was that you were'nt protesters, but hoolagins who could'nt find your soccer match.afterwards the buzz around the square was that you were all activists and protesters and not of the civil kind.from there it became interesting and after checking some web sights for stories i started to check out the things you were saying.well as i checked these things out it seems most of what you say was made up for your own advantageand when asked for proof by myself or others you could provide none. instead your response was usually fuck that , fuck you etc. etc.well it has'nt gotten any better since . in ending just let me say that there are two things the good people of somerville have no use for , one is a BARNEY and the other is a punk, and as far as i'm concerned you guys are just a bunch of cheap punks.
you failed the test (english)
23 Jun 2003
you still haven't provided any good reason why people should be against us. just seems like you have personal vendetta against unions and activists.

we have worked as projectionists in the past, some of us for 6 years now.
what? (english)
23 Jun 2003
wha do you mean by a "BARNEY"
oh no! (english)
23 Jun 2003
Looks like the allston cinema are using non-union projectionists. Are you going there next? They're hiring.

---------------------------------------

The Allston Cinema is the only movie theater in New England that screens first-run Indian films. We are looking for an enthusiastic, independent and honest individual to start work on July 1st.

Job tasks range from cleaning theater/bathroom to selling concession/tickets and doing projection. Don't worry, we will fully train for operating projector.

We offer a free working enviornment with independence to express yourself. It's a good opportunity for those who enjoy dealing with customers. EXCELLENT communication skills is s MUST!

Work will be from Friday - Monday, approx. 18-25 hours/week, but could extend to 35 hours/week for big releases. You must be self motivated and ready to work and have fun! Most movies are english subtitles, so you can catch the latest from Bollywood (Indian film industry).

We are looking for someone fast - so inquire early. Prior expereicne in the movie theater business is a big plus, but not at all required. Our first priorty is someone fun to work with, hard working and honest!

Equal opportunity employer.

---------------------
its easy (english)
23 Jun 2003
ok ,one last time now. my take on this whole thing is that you will all leave as soon as you get some kind of a "payday". you really don't want the job either way and even if the union wins you will all find some way to be paid off so you will leave and have an easy summer of itand then on to your next project. when that happens everyone who gave you money and came out to support you will be left holding the bag. as far as what a BARNEY is well ask around someone will fill you in.one last question: someone asked earlier about you people getting your licenses afteryou went on strike because the union rep told you you would need it- true?
bollywood (english)
23 Jun 2003
they would.t want that job, its not full time and they don't list any benefits. besides , they are looking for hard working and honest people.
BARNEY???? (english)
23 Jun 2003
i've looked online and asked people what a "BARNEY" is and all people tell me is a dinosuar. can someone fill me in?
Barneys... (english)
23 Jun 2003
It's a Somerville thing. If you were born here and remain here for your whole life you are a "towny". If you are one of the young professions who work in Cambridge or Boston and move here for the cheap rent, you are a "barney". It's basically Somerville-slang for gentrifying scum.

Somehow I am going to take a guess that it was intended for the post-college yuppies, and doesn't generally apply to locked-out workers.
meeting with mayor (english)
24 Jun 2003
how about an update with your meeting yesterday with the mayor?
meeting (english)
24 Jun 2003
the meeting is going to reconvene tomorrow. we'll send out an update when it's over.
meeting? (english)
25 Jun 2003
so, what happened in the meeting?
the meeting (english)
26 Jun 2003
we weren't able to meet today. we will reconvene friday morning. sorry for the false alarm.
Wow! (english)
27 Jun 2003
Somebody must be really annoyed to post so many low-quality messages to this site. If you ilke to talk about how you're your own man and all that (which I tend to guess is bullshit--you probably rely on lots of things unions got for you, like social security and Medicare for your older relatives, public education, the weekend, the eight-hour day), why aren't you foff being your own man? Why does a small unionization drive bother you so much?

And don't tell me it's because the pickets bother you that much--otherwise I'm looking for your complaints about the balckout a few weeks ago, the traffic, the crowds when teh bars let out. There's clearly something more than that.
get real (english)
27 Jun 2003
matt- get real. the only thing unions bring to people are higher interest rates on debt, higher food costs, higher consumer prices, higher foriegn trade debt, lower gross nat'l products and poor quality service at inflated prices , just to name a few things. these things are especially true to people who have nothing to do with unions. spin it anyway you want and just keep paying those dues and telling yourself to keep believing it, thats what they want you to do.
friday meeting? (english)
28 Jun 2003
so what happened in the meeting on friday?
still going on (english)
28 Jun 2003
the negotiation process is still going on. however, should mr. fraiman's stubborness continue, we will probably resume picketing early next week. in the mean time, please continue to boycott the somerville and capitol theatres until mel recognizes the union, signs a contract, and gives backpay to all locked-out projectionists.
backpay...... (english)
28 Jun 2003
here is the payday that people were talking about. backpay for days you didnt work. will never happen.
that's not a pay day (english)
29 Jun 2003
you have a lot to learn about labor struggles. payback is standard when you have been illegaly locked out. this is the pay that they would have recieved if they hadn't been replaced by unliscence projectionists.

if you've forgotten the locked-out projectionists made an offer to return to work on may 6th. they were replaced by unliscenced projectionists (friends of the manager, ian judge and one of the concession workers (justin mccarthy), who had never worked as projectionists). a week later, one of the projectionists that didn't go on strike, quit, yet the management refused to give any hours to the projectionists that had already offered to return to work, thus clearly discriminating against them because of their pro-union stance. so, that's two clear-cut illegal violations against the pro-union projectionists. back pay is a small, and standard thing. if that's your idea of a pay day, well, the projectionists could have just kept working and that pay would already be in their pockets.

as far as a pay day goes, well at the beginning of the negotiations, mel did ask what it would take to make this go away. if we really wanted a pay, it was there for the taking, but that's not what we want. we want union recognition and a contract.

mel can be a stubborn old bastard if he wants, but he count on the projectionists resuming their picketing, and a sharp escalation of activities if they don't get what they want.
money? (english)
30 Jun 2003
what are all of you doing about money while you're not working?
no wonder you're broke (english)
30 Jun 2003
i'm broke wrote:

"matt- get real. the only thing unions bring to people are higher interest rates on debt, higher food costs, higher consumer prices, higher foriegn trade debt, lower gross nat'l products and poor quality service at inflated prices , just to name a few things. these things are especially true to people who have nothing to do with unions. spin it anyway you want and just keep paying those dues and telling yourself to keep believing it, thats what they want you to do."

wow, you must have dropped out of that macro-economics class halfway through the semester. well, at least you're giving us all a good laugh.
macro this (english)
30 Jun 2003
you and j.bradford delong should get together and tell stories and share a big tub of buttered popcorn , served by non union workers at inflated prices. join the real world will you.
reality (english)
30 Jun 2003
if you look over the past couple of decades, the GNP has continued to increase, while workers pay rates have remained stagnant. during this time the ratio of pay rate of the average ceo to that of the average worker has gone from about 40-1 to about 450-1. this period in time has also correlated with a decline in the percentage of union jobs.
re:reality (english)
02 Jul 2003
do you have a link to a site that has these "facts"? a site that isnt an anarch/commie site please. i would like my facts unskewed please.
Re: Reality (english)
02 Jul 2003
You can get any of the data from the US Department of Labor Reports.

You should look over this report done by the Institute for Policy Study in 2001...
http://www.ips-dc.org/projects/execexcess2001.htm
The full report is available in pdf here...
http://ufenet.org/press/2001/EE2001.pdf

Also, Business Weekly reports that the salary for the average CEO is now 531 times that of the average worker, so I guess my number above was slightly off.
re: reality (english)
02 Jul 2003
Do you think that a CEO and a production worker should be making the same amount? CEO's should be making more. they have to be highly educated people. your average production worker could never do that job. the company would fold in a day. I know what you're going to say. without the production worker, blah, blah blah. but the fact is that production workers are easily replaceable. CEO's are not. you can put an ad in a paper for production workers and have 500 people show up for the job who probably cant speak or read English. I'm not saying that to sound racist. its just the truth. production workers are disposable while executive management is not. Why shouldn't the head of a company make more? Without him/her the company wouldn’t be there to give jobs to the unskilled.
Re: Reality (english)
03 Jul 2003
I don't think that the CEO should make anymore than the workers. The CEO should be disposed of and the workplace should be democratically run, but anyway...

Let's get back on track here. We were talking about whether or not union are good for workers. Can you post some solid evidence for your claim that unions are bad for workers?

The data I posted above shows what has happened with the decline of union jobs... increased inequality and a decrease in the actual buying power for the workers.

What do you have to refute this?