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News :: International
CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
02 Jul 2016
[Photo: Falun Gong cult leader Li Hongzhi. This is a man who claims that he can fly, that extraterrestrials have invaded Earth (and are using race-mixing as a means to conquer us), that the French have discovered a 2-billion-year-old nuclear reactor of an ancient civilization that practiced the Falun Gong religion, and that the Chinese government is killing his followers for their organs.]
Click on image for a larger version

Falun Gong Bohemian Grove.jpg
CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
By Steven Argue

A flurry of reports have erupted in the western corporate owned media that are claiming that a murderous holocaust is taking place in China to supply human organs for transplants. On June 25th CNN carried a story titled, “Report: China still harvesting organs from prisoners at a massive scale”. This was followed by many other mainstream media outlets making similar allegations. On June 28th, the Independent ran an article titled, “China kills millions of innocent meditators for their organs, report finds”, with a subtitle further declaring, “Experts estimate between 60,000 and 100,000 prisoners of conscience are executed annually.”

The report these mainstream media stories are based on is called “Bloody Harvest / The Slaughter, an Update” which was written by supposed “experts” Ethan Guttmann, David Matas, and David Kilgour. That report claims, without any meaningful evidence, that the Chinese government has murdered 1.5 million “prisoners of conscience” to take their organs. The arguments presented by Guttmann, Matas, and Kilgour depend almost entirely on the discredited fabrications of the Falun Gong in combination with wild speculation and conjecture.

A typical summary from the western corporate media on who the Falun Gong are can be found in the following quote from a National Review article:

“Falun Gong is a religion or spiritual philosophy or ‘mind–body system.’ It has its roots in Buddhism and qigong (a relative of yoga). In other words, it is very Chinese — unlike Marxism-Leninism (and Maoism). Its leading tenets are ‘Truth, Compassion, Forbearance.””

It is interesting that a western backed religious and political movement in China can be declared more Chinese than Maoism which mobilized millions of Chinese workers and farmers in one of the most important social revolutions in world history. A revolution that, among other things, doubled life expectancy during Mao’s rule, brought major gains for women’s rights, increased literacy from a small privileged minority to the vast majority of the people, abolished slavery, brought rapid development, and before Deng Xiaoping’s market reforms brought universal socialized medicine, full employment, and a fully collectivized planned socialist economy where production went almost solely towards meeting human needs rather than profit. Yes, it was a revolution that suffered from a lack of legitimate workers’ democracy under bureaucratic control and bureaucratic privilege as well as what was at times brutal repression, but it was also truly a popular social revolution, fully rooted in China, that brought massive gains to the great majority of the Chinese people.

So what is the reality of this group for which the western media claims the pious virtues of “truth, compassion, and forbearance.” The Falun Gong are a religious and political cult that were established in 1992. They adopted the swastika as their symbol, supposedly as an ancient religious symbol, but also adopted a program that is extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science. Their cult leader, Li Hongzhi, teaches that each human race was created by a different god and that people of mixed race have no god to look after them and cannot make it into paradise. Li Hongzhi teaches that the half-breed “mongrel” is the plot of extra-terrestrials who have invaded Earth and who are plotting to take over the planet as fewer people have gods to look after them due to race-mixing. Besides desiring a ban on mixed marriages to save us from extra-terrestrials, the Falun Gong would also like to see a ban on abortion while calling advocacy of women’s liberation “degenerate”. Cult leader Li Hongzhi sees nothing wrong with ancient treatments of women that included foot binding and enslavement. Regarding homosexuality, Li Hongzhi teaches his followers, "Repulsive homosexual behavior meanwhile bespeaks of a filthy, deviant state of mind that lacks rationality.” Li Hongzhi also claims that he can fly, that extraterrestrials have invaded Earth, that he has regular roundtable meetings with Jesus, Allah, and Buddha, that the French have discovered a 2-billion-year-old nuclear reactor of an ancient civilization that practiced the Falun Gong religion, and that the Chinese government is killing his followers for their organs.

The Falun Gong were outlawed by the Chinese government in July 1999 after the Chinese government began to see their growing popularity as an increasing threat. This was seen both as a political threat to the Chinese government and a threat to Chinese science and modernization. Leading the Chinese Communist Party’s ideological campaign against the Falun Gong has been theoretical physicist He Zuoxiu. He uses a combination of arguments from the natural sciences and Marxism-Leninism to discredit the Falun Gong. Interestingly enough, He Zuoxiu is also in opposition to China’s market reforms, played a role in China’s development of defensive nuclear weapons in the 1960’s, and argues in favor of scientific medicine in opposition to traditional Chinese medicine. He Zuoxiu’s ideological offensive was combined with the Chinese government’s open repression against Falun Gong members. Despite the lies of CNN, however, none of the Chinese government’s repression against the Falun Gong includes the death penalty. Instead, arrested Falun Gong cult members are treated like drug attics and subjected to reeducation. Whatever criticisms one may level against these policies, this reality diverges sharply from western media claims of 100,000 people being executed for Falun Gong beliefs a year and their organs being harvested for profit.

Actual executions do occur in China and there has been a practice, at least in the past, of harvesting organs of the condemned to save the lives of people in need of organs. The Cornell Law School based research and advocacy group “Death Penalty Worldwide” estimated that there were 2,400 executions in China in 2014. That’s only 2.4% of the numbers claimed in the CNN article, and none were executed for being Falun Gong. The practice of harvesting organs from the condemned has saved lives, but a number of ethical questions tied to the practice have caused people to put pressure on China to end it. The Chinese government responded in 2014 with promises to phase out the practice of using organs from condemned prisoners and to take private interests out of the organ trade. While ethical questions can and should be raised both about the death penalty and harvesting organs of the condemned, practicing Falun Gong is in no way a capital offense. Therefore, none of this even remotely resembles the mass executions of hundreds of thousands of “innocent meditators” being claimed by the Falun Gong and their western propagandists in the mainstream media.

The report “Bloody Harvest / The Slaughter, an Update” presents as credible the Falun Gong story of the so-called “Sujiatun Concentration Camp”. The Falun Gong claim that the Chinese government carried out organ harvesting of their members at the so-called “Sujiatun Concentration Camp”. This is based on the testimony of “Annie”, a Falun Gong member who, according to the Falun Gong controlled website “Epoch Times”, was a site where her husband was a cerebral surgeon who removed corneas from victims. She claimed that large numbers of organs were being removed from victims at the site and sold in Thailand. Besides the extremely questionable nature of this source, the story itself is riddled with problems. For starters, why would a cerebral surgeon be removing corneas? Multiple inspections have also found that the Sujiatun site in question is simply a public hospital and is actually too small and primitive to carry out the kinds of operations “Annie” describes. In fact, it was due to this Epoch Times report that U.S. government officials toured the hospital and found no wrong doing. Furthermore, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and the U.S. Consulate General in Shenyang carried out two separate investigations which were the basis of a report released by the U.S. State Department that says that they "found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital." A supposed crematorium for the mass disposal of organ harvested bodies was exposed as a normal boiler room with no such capabilities.

Most of the claims made by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour come directly from Falun Gong and the rest is just wild speculation. The discredited story told by “Annie” in the Epoch Times remains the bedrock of the horror stories being told by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour. Guttmann has also come up with his own interviews of Falun Gong members who are former prisoners. Yet, despite the wild implications that Guttmann reads into these interviews, they really don’t reveal anything. All that comes to light is that medical examinations were allegedly conducted on Falun Gong members that weren’t fully understood. To extrapolate from this that these examinations, even if they did happen, were carried out for the purpose of potentially removing these people’s organs at some future date qualifies more as a stretch of the imagination than actual evidence.

Further speculation exists in the report that can only be seen as transparent fabrication based purely on conjecture. For instance, the report delves into the number of transplants in China and tries to use this as proof. Yet, everything in their conjecture is flawed. Yes, the US performs about 25,000 transplants per year. If all things were otherwise equal one could extrapolate from this that China, with a population approximately four times the U.S., would yield 100,000 transplants. Yet, all things are not equal. Chinese access to medical care is more limited than the United States due to Chinese market reforms that eliminated free universal access to socialized health care. So the situation of Chinese patients is similar to that of patients in India. In India only 2% of the 300,000 patients who need kidney and liver transplants receive them for a total of about 6,000 transplants. This would be similar to Chinese access, while populations of 1.3 billion Indians and 1.4 billion Chinese makes the Chinese government’s estimate of about 10,000 transplants a year sound about right. Not only does the report fabricate a number of 100,000 transplants out of thin air, they then use that number to speculate that the discrepancy is the result of massive organ theft from political prisoners with absolutely no real evidence to back up the accusation.

The only new piece of evidence found in the report are supposed phone calls to hospitals where people posing as potential transplant patients asked for Falun Gong organs. Supposedly these people got answers in the affirmative. Yet, everything about this smacks of potential fraud like the rightwing stings on Planned Parenthood and ACORN in the United States where edited footage was used to create the results intended. In this case, however, we have no real way of knowing that any of the alleged conversations were actually with any actual hospital staff. To understand the motives of these three authors in potentially creating these fabrications we can consider the regurgitated Falun Gong lies they have asked us to swallow combined with their absurd conjecture. This should be evidence enough of how dishonest these people are. Yet, delving into their backgrounds also shows these three authors to be paid agents of pro-war and pro-imperialist operations that have all the ear-marks of being front groups of the U.S. and Canadian governments. Their libelous work demonizing China then falls into a wider strategy of the U.S. government using a combination of anti-Chinese propaganda, capitalist economic engagement, multiple attempts to undermine Chinese international trade and investment, and military encirclement of China all as a combined means of undermining, confining, and destroying the remaining gains of the 1949 Chinese Revolution.

CNN simply identifies “Bloody Harvest / The Slaughter, an Update” author Ethan Guttmann as a “journalist”. Yet, among his other credentials, Guttmann is a member of a think tank called the “Foundation for Defense of Democracies” (FDD). The FDD actively campaigns in favor of the so-called “War on Terror”, for the overthrow of Syria’s government, advocated and designed the sanctions against Iran, and supports Israel while opposing Palestinian rights. Besides working for the FDD, Guttmann is also an advisor for the CIA, a journalist for the far right Wall Street Journal, and the author of "The Slaughter: Mass Killings, Organ Harvesting, and China's Secret Solution to Its Dissident Problem” (2014) and "Losing the New China: A Story of American Commerce, Desire and Betrayal" (2004).

Guttmann’s 2004 book “Losing China” is supposedly based on the three years he lived in China, but questions have been raised by at least one China observer in contact with this author of his actual acquaintance with Chinese culture. Apparently the book shows extreme ignorance that caused my contact to question the authenticity of all of the book’s claims. Anyway, on face value, Guttmann’s book is filled with disappointments. Disappointments of traveling to China to make money and being confronted with mutual corruption coming from U.S. corporations and officials of the Chinese Communist Party. Disappointment that the Chinese socialist system hasn't been fully dismantled with market reforms. Disappointment that the U.S. company Cisco Systems aided in the Chinese government’s repression against the Falun Gong. Disappointments that the Chinese people, rather than developing an admiration for the United States as they carried out market reforms, actually had strong anti-American feelings and were extremely angry at the U.S. bombing of Belgrade in 1999. That bombing, besides killing a lot of innocent people, targeted Yugoslavia’s industry and was a critical component of the U.S. government’s strategy used to eliminate Yugoslavia’s socialist economy. Chinese anger at the U.S. for such a crime was, in reality, justified. Likewise, unlike Guttmann’s fictional stories of the mass slaughter of innocents in China for organs, the U.S. bombing campaign of Belgrade produced a plethora of well documented innocent casualties.

Guttmann’s 2014 book “The Slaughter” is actually mostly about the source of his allegations, the Falun Gong. Interestingly enough he describes Falun Gong "as a set of exercises with a spiritual and ethical foundation" and states that the "Falun Gong, simply put, is a Buddhist revival movement." Obviously he is presenting the Falun Gong in a distorted manner that ignores the insanity and politically extremist views of the group in order to try to make the Falun Gong’s charges seem more credible and to make his audience more sympathetic. Once again, it is another act of obvious dishonesty.

CNN lists “Bloody Harvest / The Slaughter, an Update” co-author David Kilgour as a former Canadian lawmaker. That he was. He was a mainstream MP representing both the Liberal and Conservative parties at different times. Despite supposedly campaigning for human rights in China, he publicly abstained when given the opportunity to vote in favor of the right to same-sex-marriage in Canada, citing his religious convictions as his reason for opposing same-sex-marriage. He is also the co-chair of Friends of a Democratic Iran, an organization that backed the economic sanctions against Iran that hurt the civilian population. In addition, he is a director of the Council for a Community of Democracies, a Washington D.C. based organization established by Madelyn Albright in 1999 that openly interferes in countries like Cuba and Belarus in opposition to socialism. Madilyn Albright famously declared the price worth it when asked about U.S. economic sanctions against Iraq killing over half-a-million children. Kilgour has followed in her footsteps with his support of sanctions against Iran. For such ilk who can calmly support the massive loss of innocent children in pursuit of U.S. imperialist goals, surely the loss of the truth in pursuit of the U.S. propaganda goal of demonizing China would be no big deal.

Groups like the “Council for a Community of Democracies” and the “Foundation for the Defense of Democracies” are more than a little bit reminiscent of the many front groups the CIA has set up to fight against democracy, socialism, and freedom the world over. All of the names and activities of the organizations are reminiscent of the “National Endowment for Democracy” which is openly a CIA front funded by the U.S. government. The third author of “Bloody Harvest / The Slaughter, an Update” is no other than David Matas, who since 1997 was the director of the “International Centre for Human Rights & Democratic Development”, an organization directly funded by the Canadian government that repeatedly pretended to be a nongovernmental organization.

CNN simply identifies David Matas as “a human rights lawyer” without mention of him being a paid agent of the Canadian government. Yet, far from supporting human rights, David Matas opposed the appointment of Professor Christine Chinkin onto the investigative board that would eventually produce the Goldman Report on the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza in 2008-2009. His argument against her was that she was biased due to stating previously that Hamas missiles, as bad as they were, could not be seen as a justification for Israel carrying out war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Palestinian people. No authentic “human rights lawyer” would have any problem with Chinkin’s opposition to collective punishment against an entire people for the crimes of a few as Matas does. In reality, Matas has zero credentials as a supposed “human rights lawyer” and CNN should have, if they were being honest, instead identified him as a paid agent of the Canadian government.

While it is impossible to prove a negative, all evidence suggests that Falun Gong members, while being jailed for their outlawed beliefs and political activities, are not being executed for their organs. Instead, these accusations are being promoted by radically racist, sexist, and homophobic religious extremists with no connection to reality. Those accusations have since been amplified by pro-war and pro-imperialist scoundrels in the west who are, at least in part, on government pay-rolls. And now, after many attempts to elevate these unsubstantiated claims to credibility, supposed news organizations like CNN and The Independent have now bitten into these obvious fabrications hook-line-and-sinker. There is something extremely sinister in the western media’s devaluation of the most ancient continuous civilization in the world into a bunch of organ thieving ghouls. China is a country that has advanced rapidly through social revolution. Despite market reforms, a quarter of the economy remains socially owned and this includes some of the most critical sectors. As a result, the Chinese people enjoy rapid economic development and a system that has been able to greatly reduce its carbon footprint in a rapid manner in the past few years. Likewise, it is a country with a high literacy rate and advanced science and culture due in the large part to their communist revolution.

The western media’s dishonest portrayal of the Chinese carrying out a genocide to steal organs is, in fact, all part of a wider western propaganda ploy. This subterfuge is meant to justify all potential U.S. sponsored counterrevolution in China as well as to make legitimate the continuous economic and military escalations of the U.S. government against China through military encirclement, the TPP, the economic blockades of Nepal and North Korea, arming Vietnam, undermining Chinese defense by challenging Chinese control of Chinese islands, arming Taiwan, and carrying out joint military maneuvers with U.S., Japanese, and South Korean forces that at times even violate Chinese territory.

While the genocide claimed by the Falun Gong is a myth, there are of course still major ethical problems with executions anywhere they are carried out, including China. Just as the U.S. government has executed many innocent people, including the racist legal lynching of Troy Davis and the executions of political dissidents like Sacco and Vanzetti, the Haymarket martyrs, and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, likewise a controversy has erupted in China over the execution of an innocent man. Huugjilt, an 18-year-old man, was executed in 1996 for the murder of a woman. It was later found that a different person, a serial rapist and murderer who confessed, had actually committed the crime for which Huugjilt was executed. In response, post-execution, Huugjilt was exonerated, twenty-seven officials were found guilty and punished for their mistakes in Huugjilt’s case, and his parents were paid 2 million yuan ($320,000) in compensation. Still, no exoneration or compensation can free Huugjilt from the grave.

It is the finality of execution that makes the death penalty barbaric and usually unjustified. This author does make exceptions of its use by the people as a tool of revolutionary insurrection or by revolutionary governments during extreme situations like answering a counterrevolutionary war. Situations where revolutionaries don’t always have the resources or ability to take prisoners. Yet, the People’s Republic of China is a relatively stable country with no real excuse for its continued use of the death penalty, not even against alleged rapists and murders. In such cases, sentences of life in prison are far more appropriate because they can be, at least in part, reversed when mistakes are made. Of course nobody can give back time served, but at least an exonerated prisoner who is not dead can be set free.

Still, regarding these punishments, China is different from the United States in several ways. Unlike the United States where the legal system and death penalty was born as a weapon of terror for the preservation of white supremacy and slavery and continues to protect only the wealthy, the Chinese legal system was born out of the abolition of capitalism, landlordism, and imperialist control throughout China as well as out of the abolition of chattel and feudal slavery in the most backward regions like Tibet and Uyghuristan. Despite some pretty big backsliding with market reforms, this is a legal system unlike the United States. While in the U.S. wealthy banksters and other capitalists generally get away with massive white collar crimes that rob working class people and cause deaths, these kinds of crimes can get one executed in China. For instance, Zheng Xiaoyu was executed in 2007 for accepting bribes that allowed unsafe drugs to make it to the public that killed people. In the U.S., this is simply standard operating procedure with no real punishment. Class action suits are filed, companies pay out to the victims far less than they made from the drug, and corrupt government officials continue to maintain lucrative connections with the companies they supposedly regulate. There is no question that a deterrent is attached to such a penalty for white collar crimes in China, but the potential for mistakes and abuse causes this author to advocate the abolition of the death penalty everywhere, including China. While I do defend the remaining gains of the Chinese revolution from imperialist attack and internal capitalist counterrevolution, I also consider the use of the death penalty to largely be a barbaric practice that the world and China would generally be better off without.

Yet, criticizing the Chinese and U.S. governments for the actual executions they carry out is far different than a recent statement by U.S. Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL) who declared the Chinese government's "ghoulish and inhumane practice of robbing individuals of their freedom, throwing them in labor camps or prisons, and then executing them and harvesting their organs for transplants is beyond the pale of comprehension and must be opposed universally and ended unconditionally."

Her allegations come directly from Matas and Guttmann who testified before the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee on June 23rd. Their testimony can be seen as another act of modern atrocity propaganda similar to Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ who gave false testimony before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 claiming that Saddam Hussein was killing little premature babies in Kuwait by stealing their incubators. At the time, the story was even corroborated by Amnesty International, but it was later revealed that the whole thing was simply a lie concocted by the Kuwaiti monarchy used to convince the American people of the humanitarian need to go to war against Iraq.

While the Falun Gong are in fact imprisoned for their beliefs, they are not in reality executed for them. Nor is the Chinese government simply cracking down on a “meditators”, they are in fact cracking down on a western backed counterrevolutionary movement of the extreme right. During the almost daily Falun Gong demonstrations in Beijing in 2000, the imperialist mouth piece the Wall Street Journal declared with excitement on April 20th, 2000 that the “Falun Gong faithful have mustered what is arguably the most sustained challenge to authority in 50 years of Communist rule.”

Some have compared this Falun Gong religious revivalist movement to the Boxer rebellion of 1900. It is an interesting comparison. Both Li Hongzhi and the Boxers believe(d) in the magical power of qigong exercises. The Boxers actually believed qigong could make them bullet proof. Yet, while the Falun Gong are a tool of western imperialism, the Boxer Rebellion was against the imperialist powers that were partitioning China. As Lenin wrote:

“… the European governments have already started the partition of China … They have begun to rob China as ghouls rob corpses and when the seeming corpse attempted to resist, they flung themselves upon it like savage beasts, burning down whole villages, shooting, bayoneting and drowning in the Amur River unarmed inhabitants, their wives and their children. And all these Christian exploits are accompanied by howls against the Chinese barbarians who dared to raise their hands against the civilized Europeans.”

Today, western propaganda continues to portray the Chinese as the most brutal of barbarians with the lie that China has executed 1.5 million people for their organs. Likewise, they are using the far right religious movement that first raised this false accusation as a force to help drive capitalist counterrevolution in China itself. While the Democrats and Republicans alike demonize China, the Chinese won their independence from imperialism in 1949 and China today has the right to defend itself from all internal and external counterrevolutionary forces. As Mao Tse-tung asked of the 1900 Boxer Rebellion:

“Was it the Boxers, organized by the Chinese people that went to stage rebellion in the Imperialist countries of Europe and America and in Imperialist Japan and 'commit murder and arson'? Or was it the Imperialist countries that invaded our country to oppress and exploit the Chinese people .... This is a major question of right and wrong which must be argued out.”

It is a duty to combat the dishonest Sinophobia that dominates mainstream political discourse in the west while opposing all imperialist intervention against China.

-Steven Argue for the Revolutionary Tendency

The Revolutionary Tendency
http://www.facebook.com/RevolutionaryTendency/

Imperialist Hands Off China! 别纠缠中国
http://www.facebook.com/Imperialist-Hands-Off-China-%E5%88%AB%E7%BA%A0%E

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Re: CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
19 Nov 2016
Modified: 20 Nov 2016
1. “supposed ‘experts’ Ethan Guttmann, David Matas, and David Kilgour.”

Response: They actually are experts. If you’ve read the entire version of Bloody Harvest, you’d find irrefutable anecdotal evidence. They found 52 pieces of evidence to either prove or disprove the allegations of forced organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners. Read it at organharvestinvetigation.net.

Gutmann has interviewed over 100 persecuted Falun Gong practitioners over the last 15 years. That’s more than any reporter I have every read about. He’s heard firsthand accounts of torture from victims who do not know each other, but who encountered the same types of torture and even the same types of threats coming from police from different labor camps and detention centers. (Why is it that you are against police brutality in the US, but you aren’t willing to admit that it’s bad in China against Falun Gong practitioners?)

2. “The arguments presented by Gutmann, Matas, and Kilgour depend almost entirely on the discredited fabrications of the Falun Gong in combination with wild speculation and conjecture.”

Response: Have you read the new report? (http://endorganpillaging.org/an-update/) From the nearly 2,000 footnotes in the 680-page report, 90 percent are attributed to Chinese hospitals, not Falun Gong. It seems that you are getting your information from the Chinese Communist Party and its state-run media. Huang Jiefu, who is the former health minister and the face of the organ transplant system in China, said the exact same lie that you did about that massive report published in June estimating that 1.5 million organ transplants have taken place in China in the past 15 years.

3. “western backed religious and political movement.”

Response: I see no proof of this. There are some noble US Congress members who survived the Jewish Holocaust or had family who were killed, and others who understand the horror and terror caused by communist dictatorships on their people, so they view Falun Gong practitioners, rightly so, as an extremely oppressed and vilified, dehumanized group. As a result, they’ve initiated five House Resolutions condemning the persecution of Falun Gong practitioners over the past 17 years.

Is that why you claim Falun Gong is backed by western governments? I’m not convinced by your statement.

Furthermore, Maoism is not Chinese. It came from Russian communism, which was derived from Marxism. Your praises of Maoism are not convincing, either. I lived in China in 1998 and 1999, and one day I was talking with a lady who was a maintenance worker for the college I worked at, and we talked about our wages. She was making $1.25 a day – just enough for food. She was like 800 million Chinese. You don’t mentioned the fact that over 80 million Chinese died unnatural deaths during Mao’s reign – 1949-1976 – and there was no war!

4. “extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science.”

Response: How exactly are Falun Gong practitioners or the practice itself racist? There are people practicing from over 100 countries worldwide. I’ve seen black, white, and Chinese people practicing it; people from Mexico, Central America, and throughout South America. Are you saying that all these people are extremely racist, or that the practice teaches people to be extremely racist? Usually you don’t see black people who are part of the KKK, so the KKK discriminates and preaches hate and does hateful things. Falun Gong doesn’t teach hate, and its practitioners don’t do hateful things. Name one.

Labeling Falun Gong that way would be the same as me labeling Steven Argue as “extremely violent” because you have a Facebook Page called Revolutionary Tendencies, and because you are for the Second Amendment, and you want people to vote No on Proposition 63. I can’t reasonably call you extremely violent unless you demonstrate that kind of behavior, just as you can’t reasonably call Falun Gong “extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science” unless you see them demonstrate that behavior.

Maybe you think the practice is “extremely racist” because there is passage from a lecture about how races were intended to procreate within their own race. That’s only a statement; it’s not charged with racism. If you were to keep reading, you’d find that what is said a few sentences later is that because of the multicultural and multiethnic societies we now live in, interracial marriage is inevitable, and that’s just how it is. I’ve seen many Falun Gong practitioners who are married to someone from a different race. How are they extremely racist?

There’s nothing sexist I’ve seen in the practice either. I’ve seen teachings discussed in which traditional roles between males and females are mentioned, and the man is a symbol of strength, and the woman is a symbol of gentleness and kindness. Extremely sexist? Come on? Your comments about foot binding and enslavement are out there.

Regarding your comment about homophobia, here’s why you’re taking it out of context. The primary text of Falun Gong is 386 pages. There are TWO sentences in the entire text that refer to homosexuality as being immoral. I’ve listened to Falun Gong practitioners talk during experience sharing meetings, and 100 percent of the content is about how they have succeeded and failed in their constant striving to improve their morality, which is based on truth, compassion, and forbearance. There’s zero room for hate or homophobia in the content of their discussions.

There are probably thousands of pages of supplemental texts for Falun Gong, and you picked out a few sentences out of those thousands of pages where you saw that Falun Gong says homosexuality is degenerate, so you claim that Falun Gong is extremely homophobic. I think that’s extremely out of context.

You called Falun Gong anti-science. That’s the same language used by the Chinese Communist Party when it attacks Falun Gong practitioners for believing in a higher power and believing in things that science hasn’t discovered. Most people around the world believe in a higher power and in things that science hasn’t discovered. So, are they all lunatics? Of course not. Was Nicola Tesla a lunatic because he believe in wireless lighting and electrical distribution? Neither was Thomas Edison a lunatic for believing that there was a way to harness electricity. I know someone who is a senior molecular biologist for Caltech in Pasadena, and she practices Falun Gong. So, is this highly intelligent person “anti-science?” I don’t think so. Falun Gong practitioners accept science, but they understand that science doesn’t have all the answers.

Your comment about extraterrestrials is also out of context. Again, in the entire primary text of Falun Gong, there are two sentences that speak of extra-terrestrials out of 386 pages. In supplemental texts, I’ve seen maybe 15 sentences out of thousands of pages. It looks like you’re searching deep to find fault with this group. Aren’t there governmental agencies also trying to find life on other planets?

The image you paint of Falun Gong is inaccurate. Falun Gong isn’t a cult because it doesn’t fit the characteristics of one. It’s not a religion. It has no temples. It has no worshiping, no membership, no rituals, no money exchanged. There’s no isolation of Falun Gong practitioners. They live in society and have regular jobs and families. There’s no obligation from those who practice, and they come and go as they please. They do meditate in parks throughout the world. They do read their teachings, and they do put a big emphasis on improvement of their morality, which they base on being truthful, compassionate, and forbearing.

It seems as though you want to label Falun Gong as a cult because you don’t agree with some of its views. That’s not right, though. You can label a group in such a way when they actually demonstrate those characteristics, but Falun Gong doesn’t demonstrate those characteristics. You could call the KKK a cult because it preaches hate, teaches hate, and does hateful things. Falun Gong teaches compassion, and there’s not ONE Falun Gong practitioner who has used violence despite being slandered, dehumanized, expelled, fired, imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed.





5. “Despite the lies of CNN, however, none of the Chinese government’s repression against the Falun Gong includes the death penalty.”


Response: I suggest you look beyond the Chinese Communist Party for your information. There are thousands of confirmed deaths. There’s photographic evidence of dead bodies taken by family members. There’s photographic evidence of torture. There are dozens of Falun Gong torture survivors who made it to San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles who have shared their stories of torture. They have escaped to cities around the world and gained asylum.

I personally know Chinese victims of torture who were mistreated because they practice Falun Gong. All I have to do is look at their bodies to see their injuries.

There are over 100,000 firsthand accounts documenting abuse. Go to faluninfo.net.

Furthermore, China’s current leader Xi Jinping, circulated a letter to high level government officials recently this year stating that Falun Gong practitioners have been mistreated.

Xi Jinping’s purge is targeting his rival faction, which is lead by Jiang Zemin. Jiang started the persecution of Falun Gong.

After Xi Jinping came to power, we've seen within his purge that some of the worst persecutors who are part of Jiang Zemin’s faction and have been removed from power and jailed:

1. Bo Xilai, the former Chongqing party chief, who has been sued for genocide and crimes against humanity in 13 countries for his involvement in the persecution of Falun Gong, was jailed in September 2013.
2. Wang Lijun, former Chongqing police chief who worked closely with Bo, has been jailed.
3. Zhou Yongkang, former Politburo Standing Committee Member and leader of the PLAC (Political Legal Affairs Committee), which was in charge of the Supreme Court, Supreme Procuratorate, Ministry of Public Security, Ministry of State Security, Ministry of Justice, Armed Police, and other agencies, was sentenced to life in prison in June 2015.
4. Li Dongsheng, former head of the 610 Office, which was created to persecute Falun Gong practitioners, was jailed in January 2016. Former to working at the 610 office, he was propaganda chief and the one behind the “staged immolation” incident. Watch falsefire.com to learn more.
5. General Xu Caihu, the highest ranking officer in the PLA, was detained and put under investigation in March 2014.
6. General Guo Boxiong, former vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, was removed from his post in July 2015, then investigated, and he was transferred for prosecution in April 2016.

Over 100 major politically powerful officials have fallen due to Xi Jinping's purge, and a common thread in each case is their involvement in the persecution of Falun Gong. The official charges are, without fail, vaguely stated as "corruption and serious violations of discipline."

For tens of millions of Falun Gong practitioners in China, the removal and jailing of the individuals above has been a relief.

6. Another mistake in your article is that you claim that the female hospital worker who exposed forced organ harvesting is a Falun Gong practitioner.

“This is based on the testimony of “Annie”, a Falun Gong member.”

Response: This is not true. The woman who called herself Annie is not a Falun Gong practitioner. She never claimed to be, and Falun Gong practitioners never claimed she practiced. She’s a woman who was shocked to hear from her husband about his deadly participation in organ harvesting, and she decided to flee China and expose this horrific crime to the world. She’s quite a brave woman.

7. “The Cornell Law School based research and advocacy group “Death Penalty Worldwide” estimated that there were 2,400 executions in China in 2014. That’s only 2.4% of the numbers claimed in the CNN article, and none were executed for being Falun Gong.”

Response: How do you know that none who were executed were Falun Gong practitioners? Did the article state that? No. Did the article prove that those 2,400 executions were not Falun Gong practitioners? No.

8. “ In fact, it was due to this Epoch Times report that U.S. government officials toured the hospital and found no wrong doing.”

Response: Those US government officials waited three weeks after the allegations were made to tour the hospital. Is it possible to move prisoners of conscience out of the hospital and clean up any crime scene in three weeks? Yes.

9. “Most of the claims made by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour come directly from Falun Gong and the rest is just wild speculation. The discredited story told by “Annie” in the Epoch Times remains the bedrock of the horror stories being told by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour. Guttmann has also come up with his own interviews of Falun Gong members who are former prisoners. Yet, despite the wild implications that Guttmann reads into these interviews, they really don’t reveal anything.”

Response: Refer to Response #2. The claims made by Gutmann, Matas, and Kilgour are almost entirely based on information from Chinese hospital websites, medical journals, and information from state-run media.

Also, the victims Gutmann interviewed were living in various countries (where they escaped to) and they didn’t know each other, but the type of torture they experienced and the things prison guards said to them were similar, which corroborates their claims.

10. “Yes, the US performs about 25,000 transplants per year. If all things were otherwise equal one could extrapolate from this that China, with a population approximately four times the U.S., would yield 100,000 transplants. Yet, all things are not equal. Chinese access to medical care is more limited than the United States due to Chinese market reforms that eliminated free universal access to socialized health care. So the situation of Chinese patients is similar to that of patients in India. In India only 2% of the 300,000 patients who need kidney and liver transplants receive them for a total of about 6,000 transplants. This would be similar to Chinese access, while populations of 1.3 billion Indians and 1.4 billion Chinese makes the Chinese government’s estimate of about 10,000 transplants a year sound about right.”

Response: The report about organ harvesting doesn’t derive their numbers the way you described? Did you read any of the report? I suggest you do. It looks at over 700 clinics and hospitals that conduct organ transplants in China. Some Chinese hospitals boast about the thousands of transplants their surgeons have conducted. The Oriental Organ Transplant Center, Tianjin No. 1 Central Hospital alone, for example, has many, many transplant surgeons, some of whom it claims have conducted more than 10,000 transplants. The way the investigators derived their numbers of 60,000 to 100,000 organ transplants per year is by looking at the bed counts, utilization rates, duration of patient stays, and government subsidies, among other evidence.

11. “The only new piece of evidence found in the report are supposed phone calls to hospitals where people posing as potential transplant patients asked for Falun Gong organs. Supposedly these people got answers in the affirmative…In this case, however, we have no real way of knowing that any of the alleged conversations were actually with any actual hospital staff.”

Response: It boggles my mind why you would try so hard to refute this evidence. Doctors and staff from 16 hospitals across China revealed that they have organs specifically from Falun Gong practitioners. In order to refute this evidence, one doctor, Dr. Luo Guo Ping, went on Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television, which is friendly with Beijing, to admit that he was the one talking in one of the taped phone conversations, but he claimed that his words were changed in the transcript. The Pheonix tv interview doesn’t mention is that there is a phone conversation of the original phone call. You can view it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utR7toFmzlk.

12. Steven Argue claims that the investigators of organ harvesting are “paid agents of pro-war and pro-imperialist operations that have all the ear-marks of being front groups of the U.S. and Canadian governments.”

Response: David Kilgour is a former member of Canadian Parliament, David Matas is a lawyer, and Ethan Gutmann is a journalist. They have not been paid for their work investigating forced organ harvesting. Do you have any evidence that they have been paid, or are you speculating more? Your claim is as outrageous as saying that I am paid by the state of California because I’m a high school math teacher. My advocacy for Falun Gong practitioners is what I do in my spare time, just as is David Kilgour, David Matas, and Ethan Gutmann. Kilgour and Matas flew to San Diego to speak at a university there a few years ago, and the organizer of the event told me personally that he paid their way (the organizer was a student at the university who cares about the genocide of Falun Gong, and he used a credit card to pay for their airfare.)

13. Steven Argue tries to claim that Gutmann’s description of Falun Gong “in a distorted manner that ignores the insanity and politically extremist views of the group in order to try to make the Falun Gong’s charges seem more credible and to make his audience more sympathetic.”

Response: Again, you’re judging Falun Gong on about 20 sentences out of over 1,000 pages of texts, and you have ZERO evidence to claim that any of their actions are “insage” or “extreme.” People who have different VIEWS should not be persecuted, slandered, dehumanized, tortured, raped, fired, expelled, or killed. Do you not agree?


14. You exhort China’s economic development by the use of socialism: “the Chinese people enjoy rapid economic development and a system that has been able to greatly reduce its carbon footprint in a rapid manner in the past few years.”

Response: Have you been to China and seen the smog from the industrialism? Have you tried to drink from the tap there? A colleague of mine tried drinking from the tap and got sick. Seventy-five percent of China’s water is not potable. China is the biggest market to ivory, and it supports the slaughter of elephants in Africa. A Chinese diplomat was arrested a few years ago in Africa for participating in this. China’s GDP is propped up by its constant construction of buildings and housing and cities, but the construction isn’t based on market demand, so some cities aren’t populated. Socialism is not the solution. Regulation is the solution. Getting rid of rampant corruption (which Xi Jinping has been doing, including jailing the officials who have persecuted Falun Gong) is the solution.

15. “While the Falun Gong are in fact imprisoned for their beliefs, they are not in reality executed for them. Nor is the Chinese government simply cracking down on a “meditators”, they are in fact cracking down on a western backed counterrevolutionary movement of the extreme right.”

Response: Falun Gong practitioners are imprisoned for their beliefs. Is that just? Is that fair? Their “crimes” are just their beliefs. You say they aren’t executed, but you show no proof that they are not executed. Thousand have been confirmed killed, as I mentioned earlier. Photographic evidence confirms this. And your latter statement about “western backed counterrevolutionary movement” is unsubstantiated. Yes, conservative newspapers like Wall Street Journal have observed that Falun Gong protesters are standing up for their rights like no people have in China in recent decades. That’s a correct observation, wouldn’t you say. It’s not Falun Gong’s fault that some newspapers observe correctly.
Re: CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
21 Nov 2016
Take your moralising elsewhere. Cracking down on superstition and cults is one of the greatest things the CCP has done
Re: CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
21 Nov 2016
Modified: 08:40:31 PM
"They actually are experts. If you’ve read the entire version of Bloody Harvest, you’d find irrefutable anecdotal evidence. They found 52 pieces of evidence to either prove or disprove the allegations of forced organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners. Read it at organharvestinvetigation.net."


BS. None of them speaks Chinese, have medical experience, let alone setting foot in China. If the opposite happens eg a CCP politician who did not speak English and have never set foot in China, claiming that FEMA is building up concentration camps in the USA - he world be laughed at. And yet you expect people to take the words of Matas et al, simply because it's political correct to bash China?

And "irrefutable anecdotes" is an oxymoron, considering that none of the so called witnesses are independently verified by any NGOs or human rights organizations eg HRC, UN.


"Gutmann has interviewed over 100 persecuted Falun Gong practitioners over the last 15 years. That’s more than any reporter I have every read about. He’s heard firsthand accounts of torture from victims who do not know each other, but who encountered the same types of torture and even the same types of threats coming from police from different labor camps and detention centers. (Why is it that you are against police brutality in the US, but you aren’t willing to admit that it’s bad in China against Falun Gong practitioners?)"

Correction, claimed to have. Steven is not obliged to believe something just because someone with a dubious political agenda claimed so.


"Response: Have you read the new report? (http://endorganpillaging.org/an-update/) From the nearly 2,000 footnotes in the 680-page report, 90 percent are attributed to Chinese hospitals, not Falun Gong. It seems that you are getting your information from the Chinese Communist Party and its state-run media. Huang Jiefu, who is the former health minister and the face of the organ transplant system in China, said the exact same lie that you did about that massive report published in June estimating that 1.5 million organ transplants have taken place in China in the past 15 years."

Yes, hospitals which they never set foot in. If you're going to make the extraordinary claim that the PRC government is killing people en masse, then be prepared to have extraordinary evidence.

And do you even know how organ transplantations work? They require dedicated surgeons, matching donors on short notice, and the recipients needing to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of their lives, all of which can easily be tracked. So you're telling me that a country known for its various bureaucratic failures and lack of regulation can maintain a top secret organ transplantation operation for over 10 years without anyone knowing? LOL, next you might as well tell me Bush did 9/11/


"Response: I see no proof of this. There are some noble US Congress members who survived the Jewish Holocaust or had family who were killed, and others who understand the horror and terror caused by communist dictatorships on their people, so they view Falun Gong practitioners, rightly so, as an extremely oppressed and vilified, dehumanized group. As a result, they’ve initiated five House Resolutions condemning the persecution of Falun Gong practitioners over the past 17 years."

Yes, the same Western government which utilizes the Holocaust to justify Israel's wholesale slaughter of Palestinians, as well as wars and coups against Iraq, Libya, and Syria in the name of spreading democracy. It has nothing to do with human rights, but using the excuse of human rights to push their own imperialist agenda.


"Furthermore, Maoism is not Chinese. It came from Russian communism, which was derived from Marxism. Your praises of Maoism are not convincing, either. I lived in China in 1998 and 1999, and one day I was talking with a lady who was a maintenance worker for the college I worked at, and we talked about our wages. She was making $1.25 a day – just enough for food. She was like 800 million Chinese. You don’t mentioned the fact that over 80 million Chinese died unnatural deaths during Mao’s reign – 1949-1976 – and there was no war!"


And this shows how much little you know about Chinese politics or society. Maoism is a combination of orthodox Marxism which advocates workers struggles, with traditional Chinese agrarian struggles. May I point out that Buddhism, which FLG took most of its ideas from, was originally from India?

And I also find it hilarious that you attempt to find the lowest income earners in China from decades ago and claim that somehow it represents the entirety of the Chinese population. China's a developing country, what did you expect? I can easily point out that sections of the American population also live under the poverty line, and yet it calls it self a developing country.

And 80 million deaths? LOL that figure inflates every time Sinophobes like you mention it. Apparently so many people died that China's population actually increased during the period of 1950 to 1960, and not to mention the average life expectancy increasing from 35 to 69 during Mao's rule - a great achievement from a country devastated by civil war, Japanese invasion, warlords, and not to mention Western imperialism - the sort you want to bring back under the guise of "Human rights".


"Response: How exactly are Falun Gong practitioners or the practice itself racist? There are people practicing from over 100 countries worldwide. I’ve seen black, white, and Chinese people practicing it; people from Mexico, Central America, and throughout South America. Are you saying that all these people are extremely racist, or that the practice teaches people to be extremely racist? Usually you don’t see black people who are part of the KKK, so the KKK discriminates and preaches hate and does hateful things. Falun Gong doesn’t teach hate, and its practitioners don’t do hateful things. Name one."

These people practice FLG because they don't know any better, and thinks that it's simply new age meditation. Next thing you know, they're sitting all day outside the Chinese embassy protesting some country they never been to. FLG's own books mention that heaven is segregated between races, that interracial children cannot enter the after life, and that homosexuality is one of the world's ten evils. Of course, they need support from clueless White liberals, so they don't mention or translate that part. People who actually experienced FLG in China during the 1990s know better.

The world's ten evils, straight from the mouth of Li Hongzhi, the main buddha of the universe:

http://gb.falundafa.org/chigb/hongyin.htm#68

1) hostility
2) abandonment of traditions
3) homosexuality
4) gambling and drug abuse
5) sex liberation
6) gang influence on the ruling body
7) democracy, because it goes against the will of heaven
8) science, apparently it leads to mutations
9) violence
10) influence of money and politics on religion


http://en.falundafa.org/eng/lectures/1996L.html

'The races in the world are not allowed to be mixed up. Now, the races are mixed up and it has brought about an extraordinarily serious problem. Once races are mixed up, one does not have a corresponding relationship with the higher levels, and he has lost the root. Mixed races have lost their roots, as if nobody in the paradise will take care of them. They belong to nowhere, and no places would accept them.'


"Labeling Falun Gong that way would be the same as me labeling Steven Argue as “extremely violent” because you have a Facebook Page called Revolutionary Tendencies, and because you are for the Second Amendment, and you want people to vote No on Proposition 63. I can’t reasonably call you extremely violent unless you demonstrate that kind of behavior, just as you can’t reasonably call Falun Gong “extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science” unless you see them demonstrate that behavior."

False equivalence, try again. Steven Argue the individual is not the same as a religious practice with a definite track record.


"You called Falun Gong anti-science. That’s the same language used by the Chinese Communist Party when it attacks Falun Gong practitioners for believing in a higher power and believing in things that science hasn’t discovered. Most people around the world believe in a higher power and in things that science hasn’t discovered. So, are they all lunatics? Of course not. Was Nicola Tesla a lunatic because he believe in wireless lighting and electrical distribution? Neither was Thomas Edison a lunatic for believing that there was a way to harness electricity. I know someone who is a senior molecular biologist for Caltech in Pasadena, and she practices Falun Gong. So, is this highly intelligent person “anti-science?” I don’t think so. Falun Gong practitioners accept science, but they understand that science doesn’t have all the answers."

Your personal anecdotes means jack, considering that you are implying that intelligence in some sciences translate into other fields, which they do not. I can easily point out that they are scientists who deny climate change, or that Isaac Newton himself believed in alchemy. Just because some scientists practice FLG on a personal basis does not make FLG a pro-science movement.


"It seems as though you want to label Falun Gong as a cult because you don’t agree with some of its views. That’s not right, though. You can label a group in such a way when they actually demonstrate those characteristics, but Falun Gong doesn’t demonstrate those characteristics. You could call the KKK a cult because it preaches hate, teaches hate, and does hateful things. Falun Gong teaches compassion, and there’s not ONE Falun Gong practitioner who has used violence despite being slandered, dehumanized, expelled, fired, imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed."

The dictionary definition of cult infers charismatic leadership, promises of new beginnings, lack of financial accountability, reliance on conspiracies and other apocalyptic events, and a lack of tolerance for criticism. All of which describes FLG.

The Church of Scientology never directly killed anyone either, does that make all critiques of it invalid? LOL. And in fact, there are cases of practitioners killing themselves in China prior to the ban, and Li simply denied responsibility and claimed that mentally ill people shouldn't practice FLG.



"Response: I suggest you look beyond the Chinese Communist Party for your information. There are thousands of confirmed deaths. There’s photographic evidence of dead bodies taken by family members. There’s photographic evidence of torture. There are dozens of Falun Gong torture survivors who made it to San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles who have shared their stories of torture. They have escaped to cities around the world and gained asylum.

I personally know Chinese victims of torture who were mistreated because they practice Falun Gong. All I have to do is look at their bodies to see their injuries.

There are over 100,000 firsthand accounts documenting abuse. Go to faluninfo.net."


So apparently Chinese sources are unreliable, but FLG propaganda is totally reliable? LMAO None of the actual HR organizations and NGOs describe anything like what FLG says.

Quit claiming that your personal anecdotes are just as good as proven evidence. And claiming political asylum is one of the quickest ways to migrate to the West, regardless of their actual involvement.


"Over 100 major politically powerful officials have fallen due to Xi Jinping's purge, and a common thread in each case is their involvement in the persecution of Falun Gong. The official charges are, without fail, vaguely stated as "corruption and serious violations of discipline.


For tens of millions of Falun Gong practitioners in China, the removal and jailing of the individuals above has been a relief."


It's a power struggle, nothing more. Quit pretending that everything revolves around FLG.


"Response: This is not true. The woman who called herself Annie is not a Falun Gong practitioner. She never claimed to be, and Falun Gong practitioners never claimed she practiced. She’s a woman who was shocked to hear from her husband about his deadly participation in organ harvesting, and she decided to flee China and expose this horrific crime to the world. She’s quite a brave woman."


Yes, a "brave woman" whose existence cannot be verified by any third party HR organizations or NGOs. As Steven said, Nurse Nayirah 2.0


"Response: How do you know that none who were executed were Falun Gong practitioners? Did the article state that? No. Did the article prove that those 2,400 executions were not Falun Gong practitioners? No."

Apparently well respected, peer reviewed researched review is wrong because it does not affirm to your own biases, LMAO


"Response: Those US government officials waited three weeks after the allegations were made to tour the hospital. Is it possible to move prisoners of conscience out of the hospital and clean up any crime scene in three weeks? Yes."


Quit peddling conspiracy theories just because you dislike the conclusions. And yet their visit is more official and credible than FLG's paid puppets. Apparently we should totally believe the words of people who never set foot in China instead.


"Response: Refer to Response #2. The claims made by Gutmann, Matas, and Kilgour are almost entirely based on information from Chinese hospital websites, medical journals, and information from state-run media."

And yet without speaking to the authors of such documents or even on site research in China, simply assumptions upon more assumptions. This type of "research" would have them laughed out of serious research institutions.


"Response: The report about organ harvesting doesn’t derive their numbers the way you described? Did you read any of the report? I suggest you do. It looks at over 700 clinics and hospitals that conduct organ transplants in China. Some Chinese hospitals boast about the thousands of transplants their surgeons have conducted. The Oriental Organ Transplant Center, Tianjin No. 1 Central Hospital alone, for example, has many, many transplant surgeons, some of whom it claims have conducted more than 10,000 transplants. The way the investigators derived their numbers of 60,000 to 100,000 organ transplants per year is by looking at the bed counts, utilization rates, duration of patient stays, and government subsidies, among other evidence."

Again, their so called evidence is worthless because they rely solely upon anecdotes and not on site research. Correlation does not imply causation.


"Response: It boggles my mind why you would try so hard to refute this evidence. Doctors and staff from 16 hospitals across China revealed that they have organs specifically from Falun Gong practitioners. In order to refute this evidence, one doctor, Dr. Luo Guo Ping, went on Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television, which is friendly with Beijing, to admit that he was the one talking in one of the taped phone conversations, but he claimed that his words were changed in the transcript. The Pheonix tv interview doesn’t mention is that there is a phone conversation of the original phone call. You can view it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utR7toFmzlk."

Yes, a phonecall which cannot be independently verified. Apparently according to your twisted mind, Cornell University and the US State Dept are not reliable sources, yet a vague phonecall totally is.


"Response: David Kilgour is a former member of Canadian Parliament, David Matas is a lawyer, and Ethan Gutmann is a journalist. They have not been paid for their work investigating forced organ harvesting. Do you have any evidence that they have been paid, or are you speculating more? Your claim is as outrageous as saying that I am paid by the state of California because I’m a high school math teacher. My advocacy for Falun Gong practitioners is what I do in my spare time, just as is David Kilgour, David Matas, and Ethan Gutmann. Kilgour and Matas flew to San Diego to speak at a university there a few years ago, and the organizer of the event told me personally that he paid their way (the organizer was a student at the university who cares about the genocide of Falun Gong, and he used a credit card to pay for their airfare.)"

You mean people who spent most of their careers conducting neoconservative activism and testifying before US Congress? I find it ludicrous that you claim that they are doing it without financial kickbacks, considering that they have been peddling the same rubbish for the last decade without proving anything.

And you personally should get a life instead of pretending to be some sort of White savior.


"Response: Again, you’re judging Falun Gong on about 20 sentences out of over 1,000 pages of texts, and you have ZERO evidence to claim that any of their actions are “insage” or “extreme.” People who have different VIEWS should not be persecuted, slandered, dehumanized, tortured, raped, fired, expelled, or killed. Do you not agree?"

The Epoch Times and their ilk advocates treason, sedition, and overthrow of the PRC government, something that would get you imprisoned in any functional country.

Furthermore, besides FLG, the Chinese government also banned other cults, including Eastern Lightning, a sect which uses Christianity and also call for the overthrow of the CCP. They stabbed a woman to death at a McDonalds because she rejected their leaflets.


"Response: Have you been to China and seen the smog from the industrialism? Have you tried to drink from the tap there? A colleague of mine tried drinking from the tap and got sick. Seventy-five percent of China’s water is not potable. China is the biggest market to ivory, and it supports the slaughter of elephants in Africa. A Chinese diplomat was arrested a few years ago in Africa for participating in this. China’s GDP is propped up by its constant construction of buildings and housing and cities, but the construction isn’t based on market demand, so some cities aren’t populated. Socialism is not the solution. Regulation is the solution. Getting rid of rampant corruption (which Xi Jinping has been doing, including jailing the officials who have persecuted Falun Gong) is the solution."

Implying that smog is solely confined to China, when it is in fact the byproduct of industrialization. All Western countries like the US and UK had experienced it in the past, and the most polluted cities are in fact in India. And I assume that you have not been to much developing countries, considering that they lack the first world luxury of fluoride water. Considering that boiling water is pretty much a common fact in China, your friend is purely at fault there.

And I have no idea why you're bringing up ivory trade here, as if the West never took advantage of Africa's diamonds and other resources over centuries of colonialism.


"Response: Falun Gong practitioners are imprisoned for their beliefs. Is that just? Is that fair? Their “crimes” are just their beliefs. You say they aren’t executed, but you show no proof that they are not executed. Thousand have been confirmed killed, as I mentioned earlier. Photographic evidence confirms this. And your latter statement about “western backed counterrevolutionary movement” is unsubstantiated. Yes, conservative newspapers like Wall Street Journal have observed that Falun Gong protesters are standing up for their rights like no people have in China in recent decades. That’s a correct observation, wouldn’t you say. It’s not Falun Gong’s fault that some newspapers observe correctly."


Bullcrap. In the last decades or so, there are countless workers strikes in China, and not to mention a large number of China's political opposition are the New Left which opposes capitalism. Of course the WSJ does not report this, since the New Left does not want to overthrow the CCP, which is why the Western political establishment take fringe groups like FLG and neoliberals in universities and falsely represent them as the main opposition, when their influence in China is minimal.
Re: CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
01 Dec 2016
I reached out to the author of this article, Steven Argue, when I was visiting Santa Cruz over a month ago, but he didn't respond until I returned to Los Angeles. I'd like to speak to him in person. He seems like a decent guy, but this article has too many incorrect statements that I must address.

1. “supposed ‘experts’ Ethan Guttmann, David Matas, and David Kilgour.”

Response: They actually are experts. If you’ve read the entire version of Bloody Harvest, you’d find irrefutable anecdotal evidence. They found 52 pieces of evidence to either prove or disprove the allegations of forced organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners. Read it at organharvestinvetigation.net.

Gutmann has interviewed over 100 persecuted Falun Gong practitioners over the last 15 years. That’s more than any reporter I have every read about. He’s heard firsthand accounts of torture from victims who do not know each other, but who encountered the same types of torture and even the same types of threats coming from police from different labor camps and detention centers. (Why is it that you are against police brutality in the US, but you aren’t willing to admit that it’s bad in China against Falun Gong practitioners?)

2. “The arguments presented by Gutmann, Matas, and Kilgour depend almost entirely on the discredited fabrications of the Falun Gong in combination with wild speculation and conjecture.”

Response: Have you read the new report? (http://endorganpillaging.org/an-update/) From the nearly 2,000 footnotes in the 680-page report, 90 percent are attributed to Chinese hospitals, not Falun Gong. It seems that you are getting your information from the Chinese Communist Party and its state-run media. Huang Jiefu, who is the former health minister and the face of the organ transplant system in China, said the exact same lie that you did about that massive report published in June estimating that 1.5 million organ transplants have taken place in China in the past 15 years.

3. “western backed religious and political movement.”

Response: I see no proof of this. There are some noble US Congress members who survived the Jewish Holocaust or had family who were killed, and others who understand the horror and terror caused by communist dictatorships on their people, so they view Falun Gong practitioners, rightly so, as an extremely oppressed and vilified, dehumanized group. As a result, they’ve initiated five House Resolutions condemning the persecution of Falun Gong practitioners over the past 17 years.

Is that why you claim Falun Gong is backed by western governments? I’m not convinced by your statement.

Furthermore, Maoism is not Chinese. It came from Russian communism, which was derived from Marxism. Your praises of Maoism are not convincing, either. I lived in China in 1998 and 1999, and one day I was talking with a lady who was a maintenance worker for the college I worked at, and we talked about our wages. She was making $1.25 a day – just enough for food. She was like 800 million Chinese. You don’t mentioned the fact that over 80 million Chinese died unnatural deaths during Mao’s reign – 1949-1976 – and there was no war!

4. “extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science.”

Response: How exactly are Falun Gong practitioners or the practice itself racist? There are people practicing from over 100 countries worldwide. I’ve seen black, white, and Chinese people practicing it; people from Mexico, Central America, and throughout South America. Are you saying that all these people are extremely racist, or that the practice teaches people to be extremely racist? Usually you don’t see black people who are part of the KKK, so the KKK discriminates and preaches hate and does hateful things. Falun Gong doesn’t teach hate, and its practitioners don’t do hateful things. Name one.

Labeling Falun Gong that way would be the same as me labeling Steven Argue as “extremely violent” because you have a Facebook Page called Revolutionary Tendencies, and because you are for the Second Amendment, and you want people to vote No on Proposition 63. I can’t reasonably call you extremely violent unless you demonstrate that kind of behavior, just as you can’t reasonably call Falun Gong “extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science” unless you see them demonstrate that behavior.

Maybe you think the practice is “extremely racist” because there is passage from a lecture about how races were intended to procreate within their own race. That’s only a statement; it’s not charged with racism. If you were to keep reading, you’d find that what is said a few sentences later is that because of the multicultural and multiethnic societies we now live in, interracial marriage is inevitable, and that’s just how it is. I’ve seen many Falun Gong practitioners who are married to someone from a different race. How are they extremely racist?

There’s nothing sexist I’ve seen in the practice either. I’ve seen teachings discussed in which traditional roles between males and females are mentioned, and the man is a symbol of strength, and the woman is a symbol of gentleness and kindness. Extremely sexist? Come on? Your comments about foot binding and enslavement are out there.

Regarding your comment about homophobia, here’s why you’re taking it out of context. The primary text of Falun Gong is 386 pages. There are TWO sentences in the entire text that refer to homosexuality as being immoral. I’ve listened to Falun Gong practitioners talk during experience sharing meetings, and 100 percent of the content is about how they have succeeded and failed in their constant striving to improve their morality, which is based on truth, compassion, and forbearance. There’s zero room for hate or homophobia in the content of their discussions.

There are probably thousands of pages of supplemental texts for Falun Gong, and you picked out a few sentences out of those thousands of pages where you saw that Falun Gong says homosexuality is degenerate, so you claim that Falun Gong is extremely homophobic. I think that’s extremely out of context.

You called Falun Gong anti-science. That’s the same language used by the Chinese Communist Party when it attacks Falun Gong practitioners for believing in a higher power and believing in things that science hasn’t discovered. Most people around the world believe in a higher power and in things that science hasn’t discovered. So, are they all lunatics? Of course not. Was Nicola Tesla a lunatic because he believe in wireless lighting and electrical distribution? Neither was Thomas Edison a lunatic for believing that there was a way to harness electricity. I know someone who is a senior molecular biologist for Caltech in Pasadena, and she practices Falun Gong. So, is this highly intelligent person “anti-science?” I don’t think so. Falun Gong practitioners accept science, but they understand that science doesn’t have all the answers.

Your comment about extraterrestrials is also out of context. Again, in the entire primary text of Falun Gong, there are two sentences that speak of extra-terrestrials out of 386 pages. In supplemental texts, I’ve seen maybe 15 sentences out of thousands of pages. It looks like you’re searching deep to find fault with this group. Aren’t there governmental agencies also trying to find life on other planets?

The image you paint of Falun Gong is inaccurate. Falun Gong isn’t a cult because it doesn’t fit the characteristics of one. It’s not a religion. It has no temples. It has no worshiping, no membership, no rituals, no money exchanged. There’s no isolation of Falun Gong practitioners. They live in society and have regular jobs and families. There’s no obligation from those who practice, and they come and go as they please. They do meditate in parks throughout the world. They do read their teachings, and they do put a big emphasis on improvement of their morality, which they base on being truthful, compassionate, and forbearing.

It seems as though you want to label Falun Gong as a cult because you don’t agree with some of its views. That’s not right, though. You can label a group in such a way when they actually demonstrate those characteristics, but Falun Gong doesn’t demonstrate those characteristics. You could call the KKK a cult because it preaches hate, teaches hate, and does hateful things. Falun Gong teaches compassion, and there’s not ONE Falun Gong practitioner who has used violence despite being slandered, dehumanized, expelled, fired, imprisoned, tortured, raped, and killed.





5. “Despite the lies of CNN, however, none of the Chinese government’s repression against the Falun Gong includes the death penalty.”


Response: I suggest you look beyond the Chinese Communist Party for your information. There are thousands of confirmed deaths. There’s photographic evidence of dead bodies taken by family members. There’s photographic evidence of torture. There are dozens of Falun Gong torture survivors who made it to San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles who have shared their stories of torture. They have escaped to cities around the world and gained asylum.

I personally know Chinese victims of torture who were mistreated because they practice Falun Gong. All I have to do is look at their bodies to see their injuries.

There are over 100,000 firsthand accounts documenting abuse. Go to faluninfo.net.

Furthermore, China’s current leader Xi Jinping, circulated a letter to high level government officials recently this year stating that Falun Gong practitioners have been mistreated.

Xi Jinping’s purge is targeting his rival faction, which is lead by Jiang Zemin. Jiang started the persecution of Falun Gong.

After Xi Jinping came to power, we've seen within his purge that some of the worst persecutors who are part of Jiang Zemin’s faction and have been removed from power and jailed:

1. Bo Xilai, the former Chongqing party chief, who has been sued for genocide and crimes against humanity in 13 countries for his involvement in the persecution of Falun Gong, was jailed in September 2013.
2. Wang Lijun, former Chongqing police chief who worked closely with Bo, has been jailed.
3. Zhou Yongkang, former Politburo Standing Committee Member and leader of the PLAC (Political Legal Affairs Committee), which was in charge of the Supreme Court, Supreme Procuratorate, Ministry of Public Security, Ministry of State Security, Ministry of Justice, Armed Police, and other agencies, was sentenced to life in prison in June 2015.
4. Li Dongsheng, former head of the 610 Office, which was created to persecute Falun Gong practitioners, was jailed in January 2016. Former to working at the 610 office, he was propaganda chief and the one behind the “staged immolation” incident. Watch falsefire.com to learn more.
5. General Xu Caihu, the highest ranking officer in the PLA, was detained and put under investigation in March 2014.
6. General Guo Boxiong, former vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, was removed from his post in July 2015, then investigated, and he was transferred for prosecution in April 2016.

Over 100 major politically powerful officials have fallen due to Xi Jinping's purge, and a common thread in each case is their involvement in the persecution of Falun Gong. The official charges are, without fail, vaguely stated as "corruption and serious violations of discipline."

For tens of millions of Falun Gong practitioners in China, the removal and jailing of the individuals above has been a relief.

6. Another mistake in your article is that you claim that the female hospital worker who exposed forced organ harvesting is a Falun Gong practitioner.

“This is based on the testimony of “Annie”, a Falun Gong member.”

Response: This is not true. The woman who called herself Annie is not a Falun Gong practitioner. She never claimed to be, and Falun Gong practitioners never claimed she practiced. She’s a woman who was shocked to hear from her husband about his deadly participation in organ harvesting, and she decided to flee China and expose this horrific crime to the world. She’s quite a brave woman.

7. “The Cornell Law School based research and advocacy group “Death Penalty Worldwide” estimated that there were 2,400 executions in China in 2014. That’s only 2.4% of the numbers claimed in the CNN article, and none were executed for being Falun Gong.”

Response: How do you know that none who were executed were Falun Gong practitioners? Did the article state that? No. Did the article prove that those 2,400 executions were not Falun Gong practitioners? No.

8. “ In fact, it was due to this Epoch Times report that U.S. government officials toured the hospital and found no wrong doing.”

Response: Those US government officials waited three weeks after the allegations were made to tour the hospital. Is it possible to move prisoners of conscience out of the hospital and clean up any crime scene in three weeks? Yes.

9. “Most of the claims made by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour come directly from Falun Gong and the rest is just wild speculation. The discredited story told by “Annie” in the Epoch Times remains the bedrock of the horror stories being told by Guttmann, Mattas, and Kilgour. Guttmann has also come up with his own interviews of Falun Gong members who are former prisoners. Yet, despite the wild implications that Guttmann reads into these interviews, they really don’t reveal anything.”

Response: Refer to Response #2. The claims made by Gutmann, Matas, and Kilgour are almost entirely based on information from Chinese hospital websites, medical journals, and information from state-run media.

Also, the victims Gutmann interviewed were living in various countries (where they escaped to) and they didn’t know each other, but the type of torture they experienced and the things prison guards said to them were similar, which corroborates their claims.

10. “Yes, the US performs about 25,000 transplants per year. If all things were otherwise equal one could extrapolate from this that China, with a population approximately four times the U.S., would yield 100,000 transplants. Yet, all things are not equal. Chinese access to medical care is more limited than the United States due to Chinese market reforms that eliminated free universal access to socialized health care. So the situation of Chinese patients is similar to that of patients in India. In India only 2% of the 300,000 patients who need kidney and liver transplants receive them for a total of about 6,000 transplants. This would be similar to Chinese access, while populations of 1.3 billion Indians and 1.4 billion Chinese makes the Chinese government’s estimate of about 10,000 transplants a year sound about right.”

Response: The report about organ harvesting doesn’t derive their numbers the way you described? Did you read any of the report? I suggest you do. It looks at over 700 clinics and hospitals that conduct organ transplants in China. Some Chinese hospitals boast about the thousands of transplants their surgeons have conducted. The Oriental Organ Transplant Center, Tianjin No. 1 Central Hospital alone, for example, has many, many transplant surgeons, some of whom it claims have conducted more than 10,000 transplants. The way the investigators derived their numbers of 60,000 to 100,000 organ transplants per year is by looking at the bed counts, utilization rates, duration of patient stays, and government subsidies, among other evidence.

11. “The only new piece of evidence found in the report are supposed phone calls to hospitals where people posing as potential transplant patients asked for Falun Gong organs. Supposedly these people got answers in the affirmative…In this case, however, we have no real way of knowing that any of the alleged conversations were actually with any actual hospital staff.”

Response: It boggles my mind why you would try so hard to refute this evidence. Doctors and staff from 16 hospitals across China revealed that they have organs specifically from Falun Gong practitioners. In order to refute this evidence, one doctor, Dr. Luo Guo Ping, went on Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television, which is friendly with Beijing, to admit that he was the one talking in one of the taped phone conversations, but he claimed that his words were changed in the transcript. The Pheonix tv interview doesn’t mention is that there is a phone conversation of the original phone call. You can view it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utR7toFmzlk.

12. Steven Argue claims that the investigators of organ harvesting are “paid agents of pro-war and pro-imperialist operations that have all the ear-marks of being front groups of the U.S. and Canadian governments.”

Response: David Kilgour is a former member of Canadian Parliament, David Matas is a lawyer, and Ethan Gutmann is a journalist. They have not been paid for their work investigating forced organ harvesting. Do you have any evidence that they have been paid, or are you speculating more? Your claim is as outrageous as saying that I am paid by the state of California because I’m a high school math teacher. My advocacy for Falun Gong practitioners is what I do in my spare time, just as is David Kilgour, David Matas, and Ethan Gutmann. Kilgour and Matas flew to San Diego to speak at a university there a few years ago, and the organizer of the event told me personally that he paid their way (the organizer was a student at the university who cares about the genocide of Falun Gong, and he used a credit card to pay for their airfare.)

13. Steven Argue tries to claim that Gutmann’s description of Falun Gong “in a distorted manner that ignores the insanity and politically extremist views of the group in order to try to make the Falun Gong’s charges seem more credible and to make his audience more sympathetic.”

Response: Again, you’re judging Falun Gong on about 20 sentences out of over 1,000 pages of texts, and you have ZERO evidence to claim that any of their actions are “insage” or “extreme.” People who have different VIEWS should not be persecuted, slandered, dehumanized, tortured, raped, fired, expelled, or killed. Do you not agree?


14. You exhort China’s economic development by the use of socialism: “the Chinese people enjoy rapid economic development and a system that has been able to greatly reduce its carbon footprint in a rapid manner in the past few years.”

Response: Have you been to China and seen the smog from the industrialism? Have you tried to drink from the tap there? A colleague of mine tried drinking from the tap and got sick. Seventy-five percent of China’s water is not potable. China is the biggest market to ivory, and it supports the slaughter of elephants in Africa. A Chinese diplomat was arrested a few years ago in Africa for participating in this. China’s GDP is propped up by its constant construction of buildings and housing and cities, but the construction isn’t based on market demand, so some cities aren’t populated. Socialism is not the solution. Regulation is the solution. Getting rid of rampant corruption (which Xi Jinping has been doing, including jailing the officials who have persecuted Falun Gong) is the solution.

15. “While the Falun Gong are in fact imprisoned for their beliefs, they are not in reality executed for them. Nor is the Chinese government simply cracking down on a “meditators”, they are in fact cracking down on a western backed counterrevolutionary movement of the extreme right.”

Response: Falun Gong practitioners are imprisoned for their beliefs. Is that just? Is that fair? Their “crimes” are just their beliefs. You say they aren’t executed, but you show no proof that they are not executed. Thousand have been confirmed killed, as I mentioned earlier. Photographic evidence confirms this. And your latter statement about “western backed counterrevolutionary movement” is unsubstantiated. Yes, conservative newspapers like Wall Street Journal have observed that Falun Gong protesters are standing up for their rights like no people have in China in recent decades. That’s a correct observation, wouldn’t you say. It’s not Falun Gong’s fault that some newspapers observe correctly.
Re: CNN Claims on Chinese Organ Harvesting Are Not Credible
18 Jan 2017
Modified: 10:15:12 AM
Obviously, it would take some time to respond to all of the absurdities posted here against my article. For starters, I'll just reply to this. "How exactly are Falun Gong practitioners or the practice itself racist?" As I already stated in my article" and the claim made that the Falun Gong are not anti-science.

"The Falun Gong are a religious and political cult that were established in 1992. They adopted the swastika as their symbol, supposedly as an ancient religious symbol, but also adopted a program that is extremely racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-science. Their cult leader, Li Hongzhi, teaches that each human race was created by a different god and that people of mixed race have no god to look after them and cannot make it into paradise. Li Hongzhi teaches that the half-breed “mongrel” is the plot of extra-terrestrials who have invaded Earth and who are plotting to take over the planet as fewer people have gods to look after them due to race-mixing. Besides desiring a ban on mixed marriages to save us from extra-terrestrials, the Falun Gong would also like to see a ban on abortion while calling advocacy of women’s liberation “degenerate”. Cult leader Li Hongzhi sees nothing wrong with ancient treatments of women that included foot binding and enslavement. Regarding homosexuality, Li Hongzhi teaches his followers, "Repulsive homosexual behavior meanwhile bespeaks of a filthy, deviant state of mind that lacks rationality.” Li Hongzhi also claims that he can fly, that extraterrestrials have invaded Earth, that he has regular roundtable meetings with Jesus, Allah, and Buddha, that the French have discovered a 2-billion-year-old nuclear reactor of an ancient civilization that practiced the Falun Gong religion, and that the Chinese government is killing his followers for their organs.