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Parent Article: Non-Organizational Flyer for Anti-Police Rally in Kenmore Square
Hidden with code "Duplicate post"
Re: Non-Organizational Flyer for Anti-Police Rally in Kenmore Square
23 Oct 2004
My Two Cents worth

"Quote Vince" Articles poping here and there are qualifying the red sox celebration a riot. Please let s define rioting: mass violence, destruction, confrontation and arbitrarly will to confront the established order. "End Quote"

I do not disagree with vince. he expresses what a riot is well enough.
On the issue of Social control by Law enforcement officer there is a few terms used in cops training that may be helpfull to Ya'll.

Individual: a person that is acting in a fashion (Positive or negative) that indicates (s)he is not part of a group .These or often mistakenly called bystanders. by standers or physically a significant distance away from the group.

Individuals can be within a group but not acting in a manner that the group as a whole is ie... The person in a celebratory group that could be standing aside and just watching the people celebrate or the person who acts in a manner that can not be construed as being celebratory, such as fighting, damaging property intentionally or acting in such a manner that is not consistent with the perceived motivation of most of the revelers.
note: individuals sometimes use the group to attain anonimity or to feel the incredible secure feeling of identification with the group. Sometimes when a group action goes bad there are some individuals that want no part of it but that feeling of security or simple logistics of movement prohibit the individual from separating themselves from the bad action of the group.
Individuals in person and mind are most controllable by police.

A group is a gathering of people with loose affilliation of purpose or sole purpose and usually confined to a geographical area. Groups can be controlled by physical barriers, fences, security or police lines spread of an area. most groupings of people are allowed by the constitution as long as non of the elements groups stays within established regulation, law and do not interfere with other non-participating citizens rights.

A crowd is a group or several groups which have pushed the established area of confinement and passive or agressive action should be taken to redirect or disperse the crowd and reassess the boundaries set. examples of passive action would be to open or enclose the area currently occupied and provide a clear safe way for the crowd to exit even if its is inconvienient for the crowd ie ..my car, apt or friends are the other way.

What happened at Fenway:
A MOB is a crowd that appears to have a well defined purpose but in reality is incited by individuals (with their own agenda not in line with the original purpose of the crowd) to act in contravention of good order and often produces Individuals that Have what is called a "mob mentality". A mob mentality is when an individual feels protected by the group, anonimity, or perceived rightousness as a byproduct of the mob. The Use of force of law enforcement is neccessary to ensure safety and security for all persons in the geographical area, whether a mob member, resident or business.

USE OF FORCE
The use of force begins with mere presence of the officers, then a lead officer talks and give commands to crowd. Officers occupy mobs space physically. Officers use hand to hand techniques to encourage persons to comply with the lead officer. officers use chemical or impact weapons (depending on department policy)for self defense or to defeat the persons/mobs resistence to the Lawful orders of the lead officer. lastly, when due to circumstances that arise in a crowd control situation where an officer can reasonably beleive that his or another persons (mob member or officer) life is in jeopardy of serious , grevious bodily harm or death the officers may elect to use DEADLY FORCE against an individual to protect the self or others. This must also be used if an officer believe's a officers conduct may be causing serious or grevious harm in violation of the use of force guidlines to a mob member or other individual.

One thing to realize about the officers use of deadly force (whether night stick,baton or firearms) must stop when an individual who did place a threat of serious or grevious bodily harm ceases to cause a threat to anyone. Examples of serious , grevious bodily harm is Kicking someone with shoes on, lighting something on fire and throwing it at someone, rape, etc. ..

A RIOT IS .... a mob that has lost all sense of purpose and is anacharistic in its core. Athough rioters may have some similiar motives to start they are out to do what they want to whom they want when they want with no thought of the consequences to them or their victims. At this point law enforcement control has failed and the only real option to law enforcement and the public at large is to fall back and expand the perimeter of the riot area and use an obscene amount of govt control in the form of the national guard . Law enforcement is tasked to only serve the unaffected public and support perimeter by acting as a liason for the govt forces. The LA riot was a Real Riot.


QUOTE VINCE: Wednesday night little of this took place. College kids gathered, partied, huged, shared drinks, and celebrated a long awaited victory. Yes, bonfires were started with local unsold papers and broken twigs ( who recycles in Boston anyway?), one bank sign was broken,and fireworks were launched. Were police confronted, attacked, or treatened? was property widely destroyed or people injured? END QUOTE:VINCE

YOUR CORRECT VINCE. but here are some things to consider. Lighting fire in the street to stay warm on a really cold night is understandable but is against the law and from a cops point of view is but a step away from an individual taking it upon himself to use the fire in a manner threatening to persons or property. Example: someone threw a burning piece of cardboard at a cop (seen on fox 25).

Police are use to being threatened they are more concerned with the welfare of people and property. Unfortunately the police failed in MS. Snelgroves case. (BTW I use to work with Ms snelgrove aunt and I am conflicted about the whole incident.)

Two bank signs that I saw were destroyed Citizen and sovereign Bank. PERSONAL NOTE: i DONT UNDERSTAND HOW CELEBRATION CAN INCITE PEOPLE TO DAMAGE THINGS OR PEOPLE.

mY ANSWERS IN caPITAL LETTERS:
The answer has to be no. I AGREE A celebration with few incidents did take place. Why such a violent response? THE OVERALL RESPONSE OF THE POLICE SEEMED BY ALL ACCOUNTS TO BE APPROPRIATELY ASSERTED BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD MORE POLICE. , HOWEVER ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN AND MS. SNELGROVES DEATH WAS NOT INTENTIONAL.

pressure, revenge from the superbowl incidents? panick? REVENGE? NO POITICAL PRESSURE i COULD ACCEPT THAT.

no one knows what went throught the cop s mind. Yet allowing people to carry and use such damaging weapons, I CAN TELL YOU FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE CAUSING INJURY TO ANYONE IS A REGRETFULL BUT AT TIMES NECESSARY EXPERIENCE FOR POLICE OFFICERS THAT CAN AFFECT THEM FOR YEARS.

THE DANGEROUS WEAPONS ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY AND DEPARTMENT POLICY. IF YOU TAKE AWAY MEDIUM USES OF FORCE THEN YOU END UP WITH AN ORDER FROM POLICE AND IF NO COMPLIANCE THE ONLY USE OF FORCE LEFT TO USE WOULD BE dEADLY FORCE. WHICH IS REALLY WRONG.

allowing people to shoot at will, calling weapons non lethal when they are in fact is a risk too great for a community to carry. NO OFFICER IS EVER TOLD TO SHOOT AT WILL. EVERY OFFICER HAS TO JUSTIFY THE USE OF FORCE ON EVERY AND ANY INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP. SOMETIMES THE STEPS IN THE USE OF FORCE ARE SKIPPED IF IT IS KNOWN THAT THE LOWER LEVEL OF FORCE IS KNOWN TO BE INEFFECTIVE. EXAMPLE :: YOU DON'T BRING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT.
End of answers.

I agree that the term riot is overused in this situation by the media at large. With overwelming police presence , a lot more police there would have been less injuries and damage as was demonstrated at the DNC. CELEBRATIONS SHOULD NOT BE OVERTAKEN BY MISFITS AND DEVIANTS.

BOB GORMAN
RETIRED COP

THe information provided is from the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Council police academy There can be errors on my part probably due to bad memory and being out of practice.