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Announcement :: Organizing : Politics
Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
01 Feb 2006
Modified: 10:02:35 PM
Rabbi Michael Lerner will speak about his new book, The Left Hand of God: Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
WHEN: Tuesday, February 14, at 7:00 p.m.
WHERE: First Church in Cambridge, Congregational (UCC)
11 Garden Street, Cambridge MA
across from Cambridge Commons
Click on image for a larger version

TLHOG_Cover.jpg
http://www.tikkun.org
======================
Religious Progressives Release New Strategy to
Transform American Politics

Rabbi Michael Lerner will speak about his new book, "The Left Hand of God: Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right"

WHO: Rabbi Michael Lerner
WHAT: Book Tour visit
WHEN: Tuesday, February 14, at 7:00 p.m.
WHERE:
First Church in Cambridge,Congregational (UCC)
11 Garden Street, Cambridge MA
across from Cambridge Commons

#file_1# CAMBRIDGE - Lerner’s latest book outlines a Spiritual Covenant with Americans that is meant to be an alternative to the Contract with America upon which Newt Gingrich based his campaign to turn American politics in a more conservative direction in the 1990s.

"The Left Hand of God" is a critique not only of the
religious right, but also of the hostility toward
religion and spirituality that one often encounters in sections of liberal and progressive culture. It also challenges what Lerner calls the globalization of selfishness and materialism, and provides a detailed vision of how that could be changed.



Rabbi Michael Lerner BIO ~
------------------------
Rabbi Michael Lerner is an internationally renowned social theorist, theologian, and psychotherapist; the founding editor of Tikkun magazine; and co-chair with Cornel West and Sister Joan Chittister of the Network of Spiritual Progressives (NSP). This new national organization will be holding a national Spiritual Activism conference May 17-20 2006 in Washington, D.C.
Among the speakers at the conference in May will be leaders from a wide variety of religious communities who are seeking to provide an alternative voice to the religious right in American politics. Rabbi Lerner is the author of ten books including Healing Israel/Palestine and Spirit Matters. Utne Magazine named Lerner one of its 100 American Visionaries. He is also rabbi
of Beyt Tikkun synagogue in San Francisco and
Berkeley.

========================================
Comments on Rabbi Lerner’s The Left Hand of God:
Taking Back Our Country from the Religious Right

“Michael Lerner is the most significant prophetic
public intellectual and spiritual leader of our
generation... Secular intellectuals and those who
yearn for a major change in the direction of American society must read this book-and join with religious and spiritual people to build the kind of strategy Lerner develops.”
- Cornel West, Professor of Religion, Princeton
University, and Author of Race Matters

"Michael Lerner is one of America's most important
spiritual teachers, a contemporary prophet whose
insightful and visionary thinking has already had a
profound impact on American culture and thought. His rare and eloquent voice, going beyond left/right political dichotomies, will help progressives overcome their fear of spirituality and will challenge spiritual people to avoid the danger of narcissistic self-indulgence."
- Jim Wallis, Editor of Sojourners
Author of the best-selling book, God’s Politics.

Contacts:
Hayyim Feldman, Tikkun Community Boston, 617-623-5232 hf (at) theworld.com

Emily Nella, Tikkun, 510-528-6250 Emily (at) tikkun.org
See also:
http://www.tikkun.org/rabbi_lerner/books/left-hand

This work is in the public domain
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Lerner is a Zionist; his son is in the Israeli paratroopers; they're both racists.
02 Feb 2006
Lerner is "a liberal Zionist". That's like being "a liberal racist", or "a liberal misogynist", or "a liberal homophobe", or "a liberal anti-Semite", or "a liberal Segregationist", or "a liberal pro-Jim Crow Southerner", or "a liberal pro-Apartheid Afrikaner", or "a liberal white-supremacist", or "a liberal Nazi".

And Lerner's son is in an elite Israeli military service. That's like being in the Nazi stormtroopers. One anti-Zionist Jew said that for Lerner to have a son in the Israeli _paratroopers_ - that Lerner ought to be prosecuted for child abuse!

Either one is an anti-racist or not.

Lerner is NOT.

Either one believes in full absolute legal equality - regardless of race, ethnicity or religion - or not.

Lerner does not.

As Desmond Tutu said, I don't want apartheid with a smiling face.

Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu said about Zionism: "It looks like apartheid to me."

But many South Africans say that Zionism is _WORSE_ than South African Apartheid was.

(But the wry joke in South Africa is, don't go calling Zionism apartheid and giving apartheid 'a bad name'!: _WE_ never shot missiles from helicopter gunshipts and dropped bombs from fighter aircraft and fired tank shells into the townships and bantustans!)

The "Peace Now" (the so-called "liberals") crowd in Israel is _ZIONIST_! In fact, an anti-Zionist can't really be a member of, or find a home in, "Peace Now". That's why "Peace Now" isn't called "JUSTICE NOW!"

The "Peace Now" crowd just, more or less, wants to freeze the present injustice in place - now that Israel already has nearly all of Palestine (without becoming a pariah state in the West too) - and give the Palestinians a few crumbs to mollify them.

Lerner, "the Tikkun community", "Peace Now" - and even _CHOMSKY_ (who opposes any South African style sanctions/divestment against Israel) for that matter - and the garden variety Jewish redneck settlers all represent the same racist injustice and _HYPOCRISY_: it's all just a matter of degrees. They ALL believe in a Jewish-supremacist/exclusivist state.

Martin Luther King said that, "Peace is not merely the absence of violence; it's the presence of JUSTICE."

Lerner (and his New Age 'spiritualism' hypocrisy) represents Zionism -racism - with a smiling face.

So, when you all see him, ask him about this - and watch Lerner do the soft shoe shuffle.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
02 Feb 2006
Dude. Zionazis really hate this guy. Check out Masada2000's website. Oh they want to murder him.

I know TIKKUN is just the beliefs of Yoda.
Hey dude, hardcore Zionists hate _anybody_ who is THE LEAST BIT CRITICAL of Israel.
02 Feb 2006
and that includes "liberal mushy Zionists" -- like I said before, "liberal Zionazis".

"Dude. Zionazis really hate this guy."

Wouldn't Hitler have hated - or shot - "liberal mushy namby-pamby Nazis"?: 'Maybe we shouldn't kill quite so many Jews.'
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
02 Feb 2006
"Zionism = Racism"

No it's not. It's Jewish self determination. kinda like palestinian self determination.
However, Anti-zionism is blatantly racism.
see "Fraud Fit For A King: Israel, Zionism, And The Misuse Of MLK" -- by Tim Wise
02 Feb 2006
Excerpts:

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2003-01/20wise.cfm

"Because of my criticisms of Israel--and because I as a Jew am on record opposing Zionism philosophically...

...every January, with the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday just around the corner, I have come to expect someone to misuse the good doctor’s words so as to push an agenda he would not likely have supported.

[Israel stands for everything MLK would have opposed, like _RACISM_ and substituting one kind of racist supremacy for another -- which he _explicitly_ condemned in his speaches.]

And yet, even with my cynic’s credentials established, the one thing I never expected anyone to do would be to just make up a quote from King; a quote that he simply never said, and claim that it came from a letter that he never wrote, and was published in a collection of his essays that never existed. Frankly, this level of deception is something special. The hoax of which I speak is one currently making the rounds on the Internet, which claims to prove King’s steadfast support for Zionism.

But it was his duplicity on King’s views that was most disturbing. Though [Mark] Finkelstein only recited one line from King’s supposed “letter” on Zionism, he lifted it from the larger letter, which appears to have originated with Rabbi Marc Schneier, who quotes from it in his 1999 book, “Shared Dreams: Martin Luther King Jr. and the Jewish Community.” Therein, one finds such over-the-top rhetoric as this:

“I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.” The letter also was filled with grammatical errors that any halfway literate reader of King’s work should have known disqualified him from being its author, to wit: “Anti-Zionist is inherently anti Semitic, and ever will be so.” The treatise, it is claimed, was published on page 76 of the August, 1967 edition of Saturday Review, and supposedly can also be read in the collection of King’s work entitled, This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. That the claimants never mention the publisher of this collection should have been a clear tip-off that it might not be genuine, and indeed it isn’t. The book doesn’t exist. As for Saturday Review, there were four issues in August of 1967. Two of the four editions contained a page 76. One of the pages 76 contains classified ads and the other contained a review of the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s album. No King letter anywhere.

...These things seem imminently clear from any honest reading of his work or examination of his life. He would be a broker for peace. And it is a tragedy that instead of King himself, we are burdened with charlatans like those at the ADL, or the Des Moines Jewish Federation, or Rabbis like Marc Schneier who think nothing of speaking for the genuine article, in a voice not his own.

But of course, the kinds of folks who push an ideology that required the expulsion of three-quarters-of-a-million Palestinians from their lands, and then lied about it, claiming there had been no such persons to begin with (as with Golda Meir’s infamous quip), can’t be expected to place a very high premium on truth."
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
02 Feb 2006
Tim Wise, anti-racist anti-Zionist Jew who, if he lived in the 1930s would have said "Gee, that guy Hitler, he's not so bad"
And, by the 1940s he would have said: "How nice of the Germans to allow me to take a shower after such a long ride in a cattle car."
And if Tim Wise had been a Zionist Jew in 1945, he would have said, 'After Hitler, OUR turn!'
02 Feb 2006
.

History sadly often repeats itself:

the first time as great tragedy,

the second time as GROSS HYPOCRISY!

.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
02 Feb 2006
"And if Tim Wise had been a Zionist Jew in 1945, he would have said, 'After Hitler, OUR turn!'"

LOL!!! More than likely, he would have said: "Never Again"
(Tim, like all of his young friends should realize that being nice to people who have stated that they want to kil you....will get you killed.
"‘NEVER AGAIN’ OVER AGAIN" — on Holocaust Remembrance Day
02 Feb 2006
Joseph Anderson, Berkeley, California, USA | 13.05.2005 12:01 | Analysis | Anti-racism | Repression | London | Oxford

I thought that “Never again!” meant never again for all humanity — not just never again for European Jews.

-

The Daily Californian newspaper
University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA

Friday, May 6, 2005

Holocaust Remembrance Day


"‘Never Again’ Over Again"

- by Joseph Anderson

Berkeley, California, city councilperson Kris Worthington’s letter to the Daily Californian (“Lurking Legacy of Discrimination,” May 3) deals with Holocaust Remembrance Day and the very profound tragedy European Jews suffered under the Nazi regime. We are called again to learn the lessons of history. But have we?

The primary lesson was supposed to be “Never again!” But, a very sad disappointment — and even for many Jews, including some Holocaust survivors — is that we really have not learned. For, as I grew up seeing the horrors revealed in Holocaust documentaries and movies, I thought that “Never again!” meant never again for all humanity — not just never again for European Jews. Where is remembrance day for the Native American, the black slave, the Filipino, the Armenian, in effect the Vietnamese, and the U.S. Vietnam war expansion-triggered Cambodian holocausts?

Blacks were also victims of Nazi Germany's holocaust machine that consumed other ethnic minorities like the Roma, in addition to the mentally handicapped, and before that blacks were genocidal victims of Germany's colonizations in Africa — as with genocidal Western European colonizers (there and in the Americas).

As a member myself of an often oppressed minority whose religious traditions have identified with the Biblical legend of the Jews’ oppression, it saddens me to see many pro-Israel Jews oppress others via a foreign state that would claim to embody Jewish values. For African American ideals, “The Promised Land” is not a land to be "reclaimed" after hundreds, or even thousands, of years, citing God as the real estate agent. The Promised Land doesn’t echo the injustices of the past by, in part, replicating them upon others. The Promised Land is the creation of a just society with an appreciation for the diversity of all humanity and equality for all.

I appreciate Worthington’s letter, but I object that it makes it seem like Berkeley has become a bastion of Jew-hatred: “In Berkeley itself, Jews have far too frequently been victims of hate crimes,” he wrote.

California criminal-justice statistics show that hate crimes for all minority groups have gone down — except for indigenous Middle Easterners and Muslims.

Kris writes that overt prejudice, discrimination and institutionalized exclusion are unacceptable. But, that’s exactly what Jews who commemorate the Holocaust — yet who also ideologically believe in an exclusionary Jewish state — support every day for Israel.

Others, like many of us, like “the good Germans” of another era, turn our heads away from this human rights catastrophe against, in turn, another villified minority: the Palestinian people. Their resistance to brutal ethnic cleansing — something any people would resist from any other people — is, ironically, labeled “anti-Semitic.”

To paraphrase Worthington, Holocaust Remembrance Day should cause us to reflect, to learn that the horrors of all these catastrophes did in fact happen, to support the oppressed everywhere, and to join in the activism to say, “Never again!” — for all humanity.

__________________________________________________________________

Joseph Anderson is a Berkeley resident, an occasional
contributing columnist/essayist to various newspapers,
political and literary publications, a grassroots progressive
political activist, and an occasional interview guest on KPFA's
Hard Knock Radio in Berkeley.

(the above is the slightly longer, original version
of the word length-constrained version published at

http://dailycal.org/article.php?id=18630 )

-
NO ONE has a right to self-determination 'in their ancient ancestral homeland' from 2,000 years ago 1,000's of miles away on another inhabited continent at the expense of the people who _LIVE_ there!
02 Feb 2006
.

What if we all tried to reverse 2,000 years of human migration!

"Zionism = Racism"

Idiot for Israhell: "No it's not. It's Jewish self determination. kinda like palestinian self determination."


Liberation movement are supposed to take place in your _own_ country, not in someone else's land.

(That is, unless Zionists agree with Hitler, that European Jews didn't belong in Germany, Poland, Russia, etc. -- indeed, no where in Europe.)

When Martin Luther King called for self-determination for African Americans, he -- unlike Louis Farrakhan -- didn't call for Blacks to establish their own country within the United States! For Martin Luther King (Malcolm X and every other African American human rights icon/leader/activist self-determination for the African American minority meant the struggle to create A JUST SOCIETY!


THE ZIONIST ARGUMENT TO COLONIZE PALESTINE HAS NO INTELLIGENT, MORAL OR LEGAL BASIS IN HISTORY. -- Malcolm X

"What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. ...Surely it [ZIONISM] would be A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY." -- Gandhi

http://www.moqawama.org/v_zionis/v_doc/jews.htm
.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
02 Feb 2006
"I thought that “Never again!” meant never again for all humanity — not just never again for European Jews. "


For Jews, it means JEWS...
A woman who gets raped will also say "Never Again" but guaranteed she's not talking about JA's grandmother.
For you...it my be in regards to dental work.
I'm a friend of Cornel West and I told him that Michael Lerner was repeatedly using/EXPLOITING his [Cornel's] name & esteemed reputation as if Cornel would endorse present-day Zionism.
02 Feb 2006
"Rabbi Michael Lerner is .........co-chair with Cornel West and Sister Joan Chittister of the Network of Spiritual Progressives (NSP)."

Michael Lerner's comments in their book, "Jews & Blacks: Let the Healing Begin", were socioculturally retarded. And if Lerner couldn't even accept what _CORNEL WEST_ was trying to tell him about the Black community, then _WHAT BLACK_ would Lerner listen to!?

Lerner once wrote a great commentary in Time Magazine in (Feb?) 1994, in a cover story about Louis Farrakhan, about how right-wing Jews (among other Jews) try to singularize and scapegoat African Americans for anti-Semitism (not a great, pervasive and serious phenomenon anymore in this country anyway) in America, yet they continually rail and vote against the socioeconomic interests of Blacks. Guess what!?:Jews are *NOT* a persecuted/oppressed minority in America. Anyway, since then, the Zionist pro-Israel-First Lobby and its JDL wannabees have whipped Lerner back into line.

And African Americans certainly don't have any power in this country compared to -- and are no threat to -- Jews, as a whole. More like the reverse is true. After all, how many Jewish politicians -- even right-wing Jewish politicians -- have African Americans been able to knock off, as the Zionist Jewish lobby once did with Earl Hilliard, Cynthia McKinney, others, and otherwise threatened just about every other African American politician to TOW THE LINE OR ELSE!

As with Martin Luther King, Israel stands for everything -- like racial/ethnic supremacy and an apartheid "Jewish Jim Crow" society -- that both King and Cornel would oppose.

Oh, ADL, JCRC, AIPAC, JDL and MOSSAD..., I'm speaking for myself. (I know they'll all be going after Cornel if I don't say this.)
see, Jeffrey Blankfort: "Damage Control: Noam Chomsky & the Israel-Palestine Conflict"
02 Feb 2006
Excerpt:

"Given the viciousness and the consistency with which Chomsky has been attacked by his critics on the "right," one ventures cautiously when challenging him from the "left." To expose serious errors in Chomsky’s analysis and recording of history is to court almost certain opprobrium from those who might even agree with the nature of the criticism but who have become so protective of his reputation over the years, often through personal friendships, that have they not only failed to publicly challenge substantial errors of both fact and interpretation on his part, they have dismissed attempts by others to do so as "personal" vendettas.

Chomsky himself is no more inclined to accept criticism than his supporters. As one critic put it, "His attitude to who those who disagree with him, is, by and large, one of contempt. The only reason they can't see the simple truth of what he's saying is that they are, in one way or another, morally deficient."[3]

Although I had previously criticized Chomsky for downplaying the influence of the pro-Israel lobby on Washington’s Middle East policies,[4] I had hesitated to write a critique of his overall approach for the reasons noted. Nevertheless, I was convinced that while, ironically, having provided perhaps the most extensive documentation of Israeli crimes, he had, at the same time immobilized, if not sabotaged, the development of any serious effort to halt those crimes and to build an effective movement in behalf of the Palestinian cause.

An exaggeration? Hardly. A number of statements made by Chomsky have demonstrated his determination to keep Israel and Israelis from being punished or inconvenienced for the very monumental transgressions of decent human behavior that he himself has passionately documented over the years. This is one of the glaring contradictions in Chomsky’s work. He would have us believe that Israel’s occupation and harsh actions against the Palestinians, its invasions and undeclared 40 years war on Lebanon, and its arming of murderous regimes in Central America and Africa during the Cold War, has been done as a client state in the service of US interests. In Chomsky’s world view, that absolves Israel of responsibility and has become standard Chomsky doctrine."

http://www.leftcurve.org/LC29WebPages/Chomsky.html
.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
"Zionism = Racism"

Yeah, and Islam means peace....
Never again!: "For Jews it means JEWS."
03 Feb 2006
>"I thought that “Never again!” meant never again for all humanity — not just never again for European Jews. "


Idiot for Israhell: "For Jews, it means JEWS."


So then, Zionism _IS_ racism!

Well, then, what's your argument with Hitler? For him it meant "never again for German 'aryans' who suffered unnecessary and great economic hardship under the grievously oppressive Treaty of Versailles after WWII -- and not Jews". So then, _BY YOUR ZIONIST ARGUMENT_, you should quit your belly-aching, stop pushing the holocaust into our faces _all the time_, stop playing the world's most important victims all the time, and just admit that Zionist Jews are just as morally bankrupt and almost (so far) as racistly degenerate as the Nazis. And stop hoaxing and abusing Martin Luther King's words -- Martin Luther King, who had a greater, more wholistic, vision of humanity. Not some narrow, self-obsessed ethnic social psychosis.

I wish we had a country or a continent -- or an extra world (maybe, technologically, Mars one day) -- where we could put ALLL the people like you (Zionist): the genocidally venal and/or the irrevocably historically abused -- who only care about yourselves (individually or ethnically or economically). And let the rest of us -- who find beauty and seek understanding and have equality in all the colors of humanity -- have a DECENT world -- where everyone's brothas and sistas are really all those who want to live in peace & justice -- irrespective of ethnicity. Now, we'd have to take away all the nukes from you guys (because you'd eventually blow the world up, unless we put you on Mars), but then we could let you guys/gals take and fight until you all finally blow each other up! And finally the rest of us could live in tranquility.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
So then, Zionism _IS_ racism!.....b-o-o-ooooring

Just because nazi moslems tell you so...
But serious folks, zionism is the RESPONSE to racism.
Silly Muzzies and their goosestepping supporters don't like resistence.
Next thing you know, they'll be threatening people and nations because of cartoons. And their "liberal progressive" foot soldiers will be saying "Down with Free speech" "Down with Freedom of the Press"!!!
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
It's illegal in some countries to call into question the accuracy of the established history of the holocaust.

If you think that Muslims will ever get such special treatment then you have an irrational fear of people not like yourself.

The bottom line here is that the state of Israel was created out of colonial conquest just like the United States. Neither has any special claim to legitimacy or a "right to exist" than say, a communist Cuba.

Zionists want the entire world to respect the claims of their holy books that that land belongs to them. Inanity like that is the reason the founders of the illegitimate american state enshrined a separation of church and state in their founding document. This major disconnect is why Zionists have to repeat ad nauseum the lie that the US and Israel share each other's values.

The Israeli government is as corrupt and brutal today as the high priests and King Herod were in the time of Jesus, with America replacing Rome as the empire backing up the corrupt locals.

Jesus was a radical Jewish mystic, religious teacher, social critic, and popular organizer. He decried the corruption of the temple, the hypocrisy of its leadership, the subservience to the global empire, the notion of a clerical monopoly on spiritual truth, the injustices visited on the poor by the rich, etc.

While it is fallacious to claim that "the Jews killed Jesus", it is equally fallacious to assert that he was executed by the Roman authorities without the accession of the Jewish powers that be.

In a sense we are all Jews and Christians in that Jesus' efforts fall under the universal human desire for truth and justice. And since Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Koran, it's clear that the earthly conflict over this barren little strip of land has more to do with sinful people on all sides than it does with religion.

Zionists are not people of God, they are people of land.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
Anyone who knows the book of Job and Deuteronomy chapter 28 knows that "Never again" is not just a curse against Europeans, but a curse against God too.

And to use such blasphamy to be murderous thieves of Palestinian (the least of God's children according to many) lands is to declair war against God as well as the Palestinians.

The Zionist's right to self determination includes some poorly defined birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands while the Palestinian's right to self determination includes the right to resist the Zionist's murderous theft of Palestinian lands. Needing 2 sets of rules shows a very anti-God tribalistic prejudice.

Maybe we should include taking back our (both Christians and Jews) religions from the wolves in sheep's clothing leading people to sin.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
good sense, for a troll. :)

we absolutely MUST separate the wolves from the sheep. problem is, sheep usually don't listen until it's too late, which is why that saying has been around for 2000+ years.

if the left would learn to see beyond their knee-jerk disdain for religion, hucksters like Rabbi Lerner wouldn't seem like such a novelty, and so tolerant. but we live in dark ages, and until the enlightenment and renaissance that will follow the fall of the evil powers that be we will simply have to pity and mourn the victims.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
"Never again" is not just a curse against Europeans, but a curse against God too"

LOL!!! It's neither a curse against Europeans nor a curse against anyone else.
You can't twist the meaning of two simple yet powerful words.
(try as you may)
So is yours...
03 Feb 2006
by "Your needle is stuck" : 'Muslims this and Muslims that and Muslims that too and Muzzies Muzzies Muzzies... Nazi Muzzies and Goosestepping Muzzzies and threatening Muzzies...murderous Muslims ...all 1+ billion of them all over the world!!!'

(And -- ironically -- "Your needle is stuck" -- homocidal paranoia: we _have_ to kill all of them before they kill all of us!! Take something that makes you mellow: that psychotic stuff done _fried_ your mind! As Zionism=Racism said, we want to find a large country, or a continent or planet for all the people like you, so you all can just _go at it_ with each other!)
Colonialism [including Zionism] is the perpetration that tries to make the WOLF look like the lamb, and the lamb look like the WOLF. -- Malcolm X
03 Feb 2006
The Troll: "The Zionist's right to self determination includes some poorly defined birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands while the Palestinian's right to self determination includes the right to resist the Zionist's murderous theft of Palestinian lands."
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
03 Feb 2006
Thank you Racism. I like you too. It still doesn't justify bloosdoaked invador theft land palestinian peaceful bomb makers for peace.

Germany invaded Chechnya and Osama stood his ground against the ZIONIST invador. And the Byzantine EMPIRE was partners withe the Arab Invadors because they were both against the ZIONIST thieving of palestinian land. And Bloodsoaked. Why shouldn't they blow people up? Wouldn't You?
At least they could have gotten the KURDS out of the way.
The ULTIMATE in self-victimology: I will never forgive the Arabs [Palestinians] for what they made _US_ do to _them_! -- Golda Meir
03 Feb 2006
Idiot for Israhell: "Silly Muzzies and their goosestepping supporters don't like resistence."

'You see, we Zionist Jews are always _THE(E)_ VICTIMS no matter WHAT we do! -- and no matter who we do it to! Even as displacing, colonizing, brutal (as even our Israeli "New Historians" now admit) invaders, we are _THE(E)_ MOST IMPORTANT VICTIMS IN ALL HISTORY! _NO ONE_ ELSE MATTERS for what _WE_ want!'
Should we [Jews] be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs [Palestinians], then we have learned absolutely *NOTHING* during our 2,000 years of suffering and deserve *ALL* that will come to us. -- Albert Einstein
03 Feb 2006
.

"Should we [Jews] be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs [Palestinians], then we have learned absolutely _NOTHING_ during our 2,000 years of suffering and deserve _ALL_ that will come to us." -- Albert Einstein

.
Israhell, get it? it's a combination of Israel and Hellenic
03 Feb 2006
"honest pacts with the Arabs [Palestinians],"

Rhanks for that one...it's priceless! The words "honet" and Arab (palestinians) in the same sentence.
Hey, you'rea ProxyMoron...
Rabid Racist *Zio-Nazi* Arab-haters & other Idiots for Israel TAKE NOTE!: "A Forgotten Resistance: The Mosque of Paris" — MUSLIMS PROTECTED JEWS FROM THE NAZIS!
04 Feb 2006
"Your needle is stuck": "Silly Muzzies and their goosestepping supporters don't like resistence."


The Father Bill O’Donnell Social Justice Committee is honored to host Dr. Annette Herskovits who will present this half-hour documentary by Derri Berkani and talk about her own harrowing experience as a child, barely escaping the Nazis because she was protected by _MUSLIMS_ in Occupied France during WWII. MUSLIMS/ARABS also protected European Jews in North Africa, most notably in Morocco.

Jews and Muslims have often lived and acted in harmony. During WWII, MUSLIMS in France protected Jews from deportation to Nazi death camps. The Paris MOSQUE became a refuge for anyone hiding from the German occupiers, including Jews, many of them children. The mosque’s rector even provided false birth certificates “proving” that Jews were MUSLIMS. Solidarity between Jews and Muslims FLOURISHED beyond the mosque.

The film’s director found a leaflet distributed by Algerian workers after Paris police conducted the first massive round-up of Jews. It said: ‘The Jews are our brothers, and their children are like our own children.”

A Forgotten Resistance: The Mosque of Paris, a documentary directed by Derri Berkani; in French with English subtitles. Approx. 30 minutes.


[ So, MUSLIMS _PROTECTED_ JEWS *FROM* the *goosesteppers* and were pretty good at *resisting* the Nazi attempt to exterminate all the Jews (who lived there or fled there) in France. Of course, this is in addition to the fact that during the Inquisition Jews went/fled to the _ARAB_ world for safety. Historically, Jews often went to the Arab/Muslim world for safety. And before Zionism - and the European Zionist colonial invasion - Arabs and Jews lived in fair peace in Palestine. Jewish/Israeli academics *KNOW* all this.

WHERE'S Hollywood's and Broadway's 'Anne Frank', or rather "Anne François" stories about the French Muslims? Why don't any of those prominent Hollywood and Broadway Jewish directors and producers do a movie/play about that!? OR DOES THAT NOT FIT AMERICA'S/EUROPE'S RACIST ARAB/MUSLIM STEREOTYPES?

Funny these MORONIC Jewish Aye-rab-haters never seem to post comments and rail against the Christians! Christians have killed -- often gleefully and sadistically torturing first -- literally MILLIONS more Jews than Muslims/Arabs ever have killed. It wasn't even Muslims/Arabs who threw the ancient Hebrews out of Palestine -- it was Europeans! And WHO oh WHO led to the Jews being thrown out of ancient Palestine anyway??? Yeah, those Muslims and Arabs 'just hate Jews because Jews are Jews', don't they!? And look what (Zionist) Jews have done in return. ]
Tell the Children the Truth
04 Feb 2006
"ews and Muslims have often lived and acted in harmony. During WWII, MUSLIMS in France protected Jews from deportation to Nazi death camps."

Meanwhiile, their moslem brothers in Bosnia and Albania formed their own SS units. When they were done with the Jews , they then went after the Serbs. The only thing that saved the Jews in Serbia, was the Italian occupation forces, who stood agaist tne noslems hordes, having little stomach for slaughtering civilians. the moslems were particularly brutal, if you can imagine it, their brutality even made some German ss troops sick once they saw what the moslems had done.
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com
I guess that would show that just like not all _JEWS_ are ASSHOLES, not all _MUSLIMS_ are ANGELS, huh?
04 Feb 2006
RACIST ASSHOLE IDIOT FOR ISRAEL: "Meanwhiile, their moslem brothers in Bosnia and Albania formed their own SS units."

And those would have been _EUROPEANS_, not Arab/Palestinian Muslims, right? Again, _CHRISTIANS_ slaughtered MILLIONS more Jews than Muslims ever killed. No railing against _CHRISTIAN_ SS Units by RACIST Zionist Jews. No, just as Zionists collaborated with the Nazis, now they are COLLABORATING with WACKO _ANTI-SEMITIC_ CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS who want to hasten the day when Jews will be forced to either convert under duress or be condemned to hell or be destroyed after Israel gets the WORLD -- starting with the Middle East --into a "clash of civilizations" apocalyptic WAR!

If one goes to Israel, no sane person could tell who the bigger **NUTCASES** are: the WACKO white-American Christian fundamentalists (there or here) or the WACKO Zionist Jewish fundamentalists.

What about the JEWS who collaborated with the Nazis -- hmmm....? What about the ZIONIST 'SS troops' that declared the state of Israel into being? You put an SS uniform and cap on SHARON or NETANYAHU and they would look just like they were out of Hollywood Central Casting. Of course, Sharon would look like one of those droooling, senile SS captains that doesn't even know where he is anymore! Ha-ha!
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
04 Feb 2006
"RACIST ASSHOLE IDIOT FOR ISRAEL: "Meanwhiile, their moslem brothers in Bosnia and Albania formed their own SS units.":"

Ignore history if you will...that's the Religion of Peace (TM) for ya
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com
What, Judaism...?
04 Feb 2006
RACIST ASSHOLE IDIOT FOR ISRAEL: "Ignore history if you will...that's the Religion of Peace (TM) for ya"
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
04 Feb 2006
No no, it's an eye for an eye in that one too...
peas in a pod:
04 Feb 2006
These pathologically racist Jewish guys (an anti-Arab/etc anti-Semite) around here, like "Nazis for palestine", reminds me of one of those pathologically anti-Semitic (against Jews) white peope who just *HATES* all Jews -- no matter what you tell them! Why they hate Jews they don't even know! -- including famous Jewish tv/movie stars, singers, musicians, even dead historical figures like Einstein, ...whoever is Jewish! Even when you name and ask those pathological anti-Semites about cool people -- "Well, what about Josh/Naomi!?" -- at work or at school that EVERYBODY likes who happen to be Jewish, the pathologically anti-Semitic white person just responds, "JUST. YOU. WAIT!"...

That's what those anti-Arab/Muslim anti-Semitic Zionist Jews are like -- especially the ones who post comments at Indymedia. They're just like the Nazis -- and given the chance, they'd institute "the final solution" against Middle Easterners and Muslims, and, *finally*, solve "the Palestinian question/problem 'for good'.
aren't these heirarchical problems?
04 Feb 2006
um.

am i the only one here who is really uncomfortable with how lables are being bandied about? Like Mulsim=anti-semite, or muslim=devil or angel, or jew=ziolinist, or jew=racist?

whats going on in Palestine could be ANY TWO groups of people, folks. It could be dutch protestants and japanese shintoists, french catholics and brazilian santeria-ists, tibetan buddists and indian hindus, all that would have had to happen is a different human migration pattern and different groups of humans killing wach other over god and goods, because whats happening there is a HUMAN PROBLEM--

one group with one religion has looked in its religious books and its history, and- with the help of some local nations with empire building motives- decided those books and history give it HEIRARCHICAL POWER and BETTER HUMANITY over and ABOVE another group of people, with THEIR religious books and its history. there are many, many, MANY people who are just palestinians or jews, or christians, or agnostics, or atheists, what HAVE you-- who are caught up in the ENORMITY of that conflict. All they did was happen to be born to some folks who are jewish or muslim. Are ALL of them angels or devils?

The kind of interaction I see here is exactly what LEADS to this kind of situation- in ANY nation, south africa, yugoslavia, palestine, louisiana, germany, armenia, this kind of branding of ENTIRE PEOPLES based on the political actions of whoever landed up being in charge- after all the corruption and empire building and racism and market making that have been a part and parcel of nations since ancient times. This is what readies the POPULATION to find it GOOD and ACCEPTABLE.

what good is it to hate anybody? what will it accomplish? if you hate all the jews who were ever born anywhere, will the isreali army and govenment and so forth suddenly stop brutalising them? "Why Look! That guy hates us ALL! Let's stop immediately!" If mister- god i feel sick even repeating this- mister(or missus) "muzzie-nazi" shouts that from every rooftop of every city, will the violent religious fundamentalism that has grown in a corner of muslim religion suddenly dissappear? If i go out and blow something up,or shout "fuck you" at some people i don't know, will christian rightists who hate black people and hispanic people and gay people and so forth sudden;ly mend their ways? its just not helpful. . . .. what does it accomplish?

so- if anyone can do it without drooling on themseleves with hatred- i don't know much about rabi lerner, except that he does tikkun and is doing something or other to try to counter the religious right. anyone care to ARTICULATELY and NON-FOAMINGLY tell me what he said about isreal thats got everyone so worked up? why you don't like him? or do? or dont' know? or his message?

god i wish people in this town were more civil. . . . .
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
04 Feb 2006
"
whats going on in Palestine could be ANY TWO groups of people, folks."

No it couldn't. Out of 27 major conflicts in the world today 26 involve moslems attacking their neighbors...
There's a pattern here if you wish to see it.
Otherwise, like thaqt guy "Racism" you can siomply blame the JEWS
'The 27th confict' involves HISTORY'S & THE WORLD'S BIGGEST FUCKIN' _HYPOCRITES_!!:
05 Feb 2006
Jewish Arab-/Muslim-hater: "Out of 27 major conflicts in the world today 26 involve moslems attacking their neighbors..."

Well, putting aside the Anglo-American lawless attack on Iraq documentably costing the lives of now well over at least 100,000 civilians -- not including probably, depending, double or triple or quarduple or quintuple that number, as in any war, seriously wounded, wounded for life and maimed -- based on a patent *LIE*...,

and just taking these (no doubt inflated) Zionist numbers for sake of argument (knowing how we Zionists are inveterate pathological liars) ...,

"The 27th conflict" involves a state that has *STARTED* every single war with its neighbors except *one* (also always claiming "a pre-emptive attack" -- even the Suez War in 1956, which was a war so blatantly started by Israel that even THE *U.S.* TOLD ISRAEL TO GET ITS ASS OUT of there or suffer the consequences from the U.S.; and Lebanon, which was an invasion that cost the lives of about 20,000 civilians and ended in a wanton massacre)!

The only state who's militarist belligerance was, in part, outlined in the Jewish-American neo-cons WORLD DOMINATION "Project for a New American Century" (the PNAC) -- by a group of primarily Jewish-American neocons in the government echelons who even called themselves _"THE CABAL"_ (is "there a pattern _here_ if you wish to see it"?).

The state that *FIRST* introduced nuclear weapons into the Middle East (at least a couple HUNDRED).

THE ONLY REMAINING OFFICIALLY LEGALLY APARTHEID SETTLER-COLONIAL STATE OF ITS KIND LEFT IN THE ENTIRE WOLRD (the 2nd to the last was apartheid South Africa).

THE ONLY STATE IN THE WORLD THAT IDEOLOGICALLY, POLITICALLY AND LEGALLY DEFINES ITSELF, AND LEGALLY CATEGORIZES ITS CITIZENS, ON THE BASIS OF* RACE* OR *RELIGIOETHNICITY*.

The only state in the world whose former prime minister said of 9-11, "IT [9-11] WAS A *GOOD* THING!" -- and then backtracked on his statement by saying that, "I mean 9-11 was good because it brought Israel and the U.S. even closer together".

(How many Americans believe that, "9-11 was GOOD because it brought Israel and the U.S. even closer together"?)

And the only state in the world whose espionage agents (posing as New York moving van employees) were CAUGHT *CHEERING*, from New Jersey looking over to Manhattan, the destruction of the World Trade Center, arrested by the police who were called by people who saw the moving van people (agents who were later quietly deported).

(Makes you wonder about that countries roll in 9-11, doesn't it? -- by directly or indirectly enabling the attack, setting up patsies, or turning the other way when, perhaps, it specifically *knew* when, where and how those attacks were going to happen.)

The only country in the world that gets 6-10 BILLION DOLLARS each and every year from we taxpayers -- and yet STILL spys on our government, including in our Pentagon.

The only country in the world that has gotten more money transfered from the treasury of another country to it than any other country in history -- yet still is caught red-handed getting top secret documents passed to it from officials/personnel working for it in the government of the country that has transfered that wealth.

The only country in the world that has government officials (current/former officials of the pro-Israel-First Lobby -- essentially a foreign lobby) in the excecutve, legislative and military administration of another country (the U.S.), as well as its constituent states, who's loyalties to the former country (Israel) as greater than their loyalty to their own country (the U.S.).

The only country in the world that has machine gunned, rocketed and bombed a major military vessel (the USS Liberty, kllling many of its crew, seriously wounding others, and nearly sinking it) and planted bombs in the diplomatic facilities (the Lavon Affair in Egypt) of the country that gives it more cummulative foreign aid than one country has ever given to another country at any time in history, using advanced jet fighters that they got from that country!

The country that *INVENTED* the car bomb -- now widely copied in other countries (and even used by the CIA).

The only country in the world who's soldiers make a practice of luring the oppressed's children out with verbal taunts (often about their mothers or their manhood) and then sniper-fire wounds/kills those children as military sport.

The only country in the Middle East that could drag the entire world into another multinational/continental war.

The only country in the Middle East that is pivotal in firmly keeping the U.S. government *SUPPORTING* the Middle Eastern dictatorships (for example, either for the sake of Israel, as with Egypt or Jordan, or oil, as with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or before that, Iran) that the Western media and people find so easy to politically condemn.

Yet, all these are just some of many examples.

AND THE ONLY STATE IN THE WORLD THAT CONTAINS HISTORY'S AND THE WORLD'S BIGGEST FUCKIN' ***HYPOCRITES***!!

That country would be ***JEWISH***.
You're essentially _RIGHT_ katt! Your words have great wisdom.
05 Feb 2006
katt: "whats going on in Palestine could be ANY TWO groups of people, folks. It could be dutch protestants and japanese shintoists, french catholics and brazilian santeria-ists, tibetan buddists and indian hindus, all that would have had to happen is a different human migration pattern and different groups of humans killing wach other over god and goods, because whats happening there is a HUMAN PROBLEM--"

Yyyep, you're right, katt.

As the 02 Feb post, "‘NEVER AGAIN’ OVER AGAIN — on Holocaust Remembrance Day", points out, "Their [the people who happen to be Palestinians] resistance to brutal ethnic cleansing — something ANY people would resist from ANY OTHER people — is, ironically, labeled “anti-Semitic.”[ given that Palestinians are more Semitic than the original European Jewish invaders, and their ofen VERY/ULTRA RIGHT-WING AND OVERTLY RACIST leaders]"

Look at how white peope in the U.S. react to Mexican illegal immigrants who come here just to work in the hot, sweaty, pesticide-sprayed fields and do menial gardening and restaurant labor that most Americans don't want to do anyway! Now, what if those millions of Mexican illegal immigrants came here with the intention of taking over just California -- which they used to have (only a little over 150 years ago, not 2,000 years ago) -- by armed *FORCE*, if necessary -- and set up their own Mexican-exclusivist apartheid expatriate state!! -- and told/drove eveyone else to get the hell out! Why every white American and their grandmother would be out literally gunnin' for Mexicans!

The Palestinians -- a people now villified per se the way Jews themselves were once villified -- and villified *BY* most Jews themselves -- are doing what *ANY* invaded people -- by invading people (Jews) who also intended to dispossess and displace the Palestinians and set up an expatriate state -- would do: RESIST, and eventually with armed force (and, not surprisingly, with whatever they could use -- their own bodies, if necessary).

Now the Zionist/Israeli reaction to Palestinian "terrorism" is also ironic because that's how Zionist leaders and their regular/irregular forces -- often JEWISH TERRORIST GROUPS forced the British out of Palestine, forced the Paletinians out of hundreds of their towns and villages, as well as cities, and brought Israel into existence in the first place. Now Zionists are quick to point out how they bought Palestinian land from absentee landlords, but Israei historians (the so-called "New Historians") now admit that most of the Palestinians were driven out by armed force, including Jewish terrorist groups. And most Israeli Jews -- as opposed to Zionist Jewish-Americans -- now admit that this is true, "but it's too late now to matter anymore" -- and the Jewish fundamentalists in Israel are actually *PROUD* of having driven the Palestinians out by hook or crook or guns and bombs! You kinda have to admire *real* right-wing crazzzy Jewish religious fundamentalists for their *honesty*: 'Yeah, we took the land by force!: SO WHAT...!!? God *promised* it to us!' -- or, 'We had it 2,000 years ago; we're coming *back* for it!' -- unlike the namby-pamby ultra-right-wing Zionist Jews who post at Indymedia. Yeah, ya kinda gotta admire those really really really *CRAAAZZZIES* sometime. Now, many of the Isareli leaders (some who became prime ministers) who say that, "We won't negotiate with terrorists!", used to be terrorists themselves! Just ask the older British government people.

Now, all these Zionist racists around here morally squiggle and drivel on and on about how the Palestinians are not Palestinians and how Palestine is not a country and how the real Palestine is Jordan.

Many Zionists -- especially the ones that post at Indymedia -- love to say that there was no country called Palestine, but the moral point that racist-supremacists (whether they be Christian-white-supremacists or Jewish-white-supremacists), of course, easily miss in their arrogance is that it doens't matter if what the indigenous people or the land they live on was called -- or whether they had an invader-recognized nation-state -- or even if they and their land wasn't, hypothetically, called *anything*: the indigenous/native people have a right to live there without being systematically/massed dispossessed (through whatever means and economically or by armed force, including by early Jewish terrorist groups) and driven off the land and/or out of their homes.

(What if a Hong Kong multi-multi-billionaire started buying up neighborhoods in San Francisco until they started to coalesce, and then started systematically/mass evicting who weren't (and just because they weren't) Chinese, so that he could move in people who were Hong Kong Chinese -- and kept people from buying that weren't Chinese. Well, non-Chinese-Americans wouldn't like that very much at all -- even if he did this all legally according to the rules of market capitalism -- and they'd rightfully call it *RACISM*. The Hong Kong multi-billionaire couldn't justify it by saying, but there were always Chinese living in San Francisco -- and in ancient times, we can prove that the Chinese sailed he and had a little mini-kingdom here! And that's without even trying to set up a Hong Kong expatriate ministate. Well, a businessman from Japan once started doing that with a suburban S.F. Bay Area subdivision or two and the white people howled! -- before he was stopped.)

But, of course, NONE of that matters: the people who lived on the land before the European Jews invaded had a right to live on the land without being dispossessed and/or driven off precisely because they were not Jewish! -- AND THAT'S WHY ZIONISM IS RACISM -- as the political/religious ideology to colonize Palestine -- or whatever Zionists want to call it (the Zionists certainly didn't just call it "there").

But, let me tell you: Jew ≠ Zionist and Zionism ≠ Judaism -- although the Zionists falsely make such an equivalence (Jew = Zionist and Zionism = Judaism) -- but no one here (certainly not anti-Zionists) other than the Zionists themselves has ever said/suggested such an equivalence.

In fact, some, though clearly not enough, Jews, including some holocaust survivors and fmr anti-Nazi resistance fighters and their families are *ANTI-Zionists*, out of moral conviction and conscience. They believe that just as there should not be a, typically, Christian country oppressing/subjugating/dispossessing/brutalizing/massacring/killing Jews because they are not Christian, there should not be a Jewish country oppressing/subjugating/dispossessing/brutalizing/massacring/killing others because they are not Jewish.

Also, Jew ≠ racist. Simply because, of course, not all Jews are racist. In fact, many -- though obviously not nearly enough -- are ANTI-Zionists. And many, like "the good Germans" of the Nazi era, don't care or, like the commentary posted above said, turn their heads the other way.

But Zionism = Racism precisely because it is an explicitly racist ideology. Of course, most racists deny that they *are* racists: they just say that based on their race (or ethnicity or religio-ethnicity or whatever is/they consider existentially/fundamentally innate to their being) they have a superior right to whatever it is that they want! Zionism is the belief that Jews have a natural, superior, "God-promised-&-given", exclusivist -- *ANCIENT* (that's as SILLY as "God-promised") -- and therefore automatic right to most or all of the land in Palestine -- over the rights of the non-Jewish inhabitants of the land. In the religious theory, I guess, they base this right on who your *mother* was! Now does that sound like a morally and socially advanced/evolved society. Why the argument for political Zionism is *literally* WORSE THAN MEDIEVAL!! That's why Malcolm X said that the argument for political Zionism has no intelligent, moral, or legal basis in history.

Now, some of your more educated, liberal Zionists (we don't see any of them posting in Indymedia), now claim that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is a conflict of two rights -- recognizing that -- no -- Palestine was not "a land without a people" -- but, of course, that the rights of the Zionists matter more (and the Palestinians can get some crumbs from the generous liberal Zionists).

In brief, you can say that Zionism is Jewish settler-colonialism in Palestine.

I also call the nature of Zionism -- and therefore political Zionism itself -- Jewish apartheid in Palestine; Jewish white-supremacy; Jewish Jim Crow; Jewish Segregationism; and even Jewish Nazism in Palestine, as no less than Einstein (as well as other Jews of conscience) made the comparison. And actually the Zionists have pretty much done everything to the Palestinians that Hitler did to the Jews, except put them in literal death camps and gas chambers. But, Hitler's practice for the WALLED-IN Warsaw Jewish ghetto was 'slow death inside, quick death outside' -- and now the Jews are building 'Warsaw ghettos' for the Palestinians -- only the walls are much higher, and established a huge concentration camp (history's LARGEST) in the Gaza Strip. And Zionist Jews are no more amenable to moral suasion than the Nazis and their followers were: like the Nazis, "We just want the land and we want you _off_ of it -- one way or another."

Okay, so as Zionism is Jewish settler-colonialism in Palestine, like other European settler-colonialism countries where large populations of Europeans invaded, Palestine, like Algeria or apartheid South Africa, the Palestinians have actually been engaged in a struggle for decolonization -- at least political decolonization (not that they now expect all nearly 5 million Jews to leave, anymore than black South Africans expected 5 million European Christians & Jews to leave). Indeed, in brief, the Palestinians are an indigenous/native people engaged in an anti-colonial struggle against primarily European oppression.

Now, in cases where the settler-colonizing state -- or in the case of the U.S. in Iraq, the effective colonizer (though there not a settler-colonizer) -- engages long oppressive campaigns/wars of extreme violence -- the decolonizing struggle of the indigenous/native people may take on an increasingly "militant" character. (Of course, aggressive armed settler-colonialism which seeks to displace the indigenous/native population is pretty "militant" itself.) Thus, the rise from peaceful resistance to armed resistance (like with the ANC or the PLO) to, perhaps, religious fundamentalist (where that exists) or non-democratic forces gaining primacy in the struggle -- especially as the violent colonizers (effective or literal) tend to neutralize the more open secular democratic people more easily. In other words, the violent colonizers can unintentionally reap what they sow. And the problem with people resisting colonization is that sometimes they just won't "fight fair": won't fight the way the colonizer wants them to fight. (In the times of slave revolts, the cry of the brutal slave-owners might have been, "We tried to shoot as many of them as we could, but the savages just kept coming at us with *pitchforks*! Can you *imagine* *that*!? *Pitchforks*! They're *barbaric*, I tell you!")

Okay, finally with regard to Lerner. Lerner -- like any Jew I've ever known or heard of, even Zionist Jews -- claims to believe in non-racist, egalitarian societies with equal rights for all people: you know, the ideals that all morally and socially evolved people are supposed to believe in -- *EXCEPT* WHEN IT COMES TO *ISRAEL/PALESTINE*. In fact, there is a saying that Jews believe in EQUALITY everywhere -- EXCEPT in Palestine. Then they believe all that stuff I told you above about the ideology of Zionism. The hardcore Zionists just say, "Fuck it! It's ours! We're gonna take it!" Or, to indeed quote the Jewish fundamentalists, "God gave us the land. It's OURS. The Arabs [Zionists never say Palestinians] must leave -- or die."

Now, the "liberal Zionists" (like the "liberal" slave-owners, or white Jim Crow Southerners, or Segregationists, or apartheid Afrikaners, or Nazis, etc.) believe that, 'Gosh, all that terribly offensive and ghastly violence on the part of the state just looks *TOO* bad and it's bad PR for the rest of the world! Can't we reign in some of the more extreme behavior. Look, we've got MOST of what we were after, let's leave it at that. We can keep our ideology and our institutions; ligten up on the natives/ethnics, throw them a few crumbs and everybody goes home happy. If we don't we're going to lose the whole thing [or in the case of Israel, matzo ball]!' You see, "liberal Zionists" are smart enough to see what the hardcore inveterate-racist (like the ones in the above posts) "Idiots for Israel" can't (which is why they hate him as much as the Palestinians). Lerner is just saying, 'Let's just tone it down a little. You know, there's international TV these days -- not like the good ole days. Besides, I'm TIRED of morally conscious people asking me questions about the latest Israeli atrocities.I'm TIRED of trying to explain, Look *I* didn't shoot the little Palestinian girl! Yesss, those are my people. STOP asking me about what the Israelis have done today! Look, I'm caught between the morally conscious people who believe in equality for all and those hardcore Zionists and the Israel-lobby who've put maps and directions and floor plans to my home on their websites to encourage some crazy arch-Zionist to come up to my house and KILL me! '

The liberal Southern Segregationists were like, 'Look, torture-burning-hanging-burning Black men looks so BAD on TV; siccing dogs and horses and fire hoses on little Black girls in their Sunday bests looks SO UGGGLY on TV! Let the Blacks have their own businesses and even nice neighborhoods without going to burn them down, let them stop in our gas stations, let them eat in highway chain restaurants, and let them have one clerk position in half the chain department stores -- as long as they don't try to come live in OUR neighborhoods and go to OUR schools or take the GOOD jobs from us! Throw them a few crumbs and everyone goes home happy. If you don't we might lose the whole thing!'

Now, in South Africa, the whites got smart -- unlike the Zionists (who said all Jews were smart?): the white ecnomic elite just said, 'The PR's gotten too bad! If we don't stop the violence, we'll lose EVERYTHING! Let's just let that Mandela guy out of prison; let the Blacks 'run' the government; let a few more own nice homes in a few white neighborhoods; we'll still own and run most of the economy; the 'Balck' government will have to jump to the tune of the IMF and the World Bank; let's just take down the UGLY scaffolding (especially now that we don't need it anymore) of this house of inequality and LET'S JUST STOP CALLING IT *APARTHEID*!' Mandela always used to talk about "the masses of the people": do you see the masses of black people in South Africa economically any better off? *Economic* apartheid -- especially income polarization -- for the masses of black people in South Africa is greater *now* than under apartheid! Whites own more of South Africa now than before!

So, you were essentially right, katt -- just off on a few technical misconceptions. Your words have great wisdom. You can be in OUR world of what Martin Luther King called "a love for humanity". We'll let the Zionists go to the world where everyone can kill each other off.





Those Europeans were like many other European colonizers, this time Jewish, instead of Christian, who went to settler-colonize in the non-European world, toting the Bible and the gun, claiming that they were oppressed back home, saying that "God" entitled them the land, and in turn oppressing others -- oh, and killing anyone who disagreed.
the racist jewish guys mean themselves, the _zionists_; they were just declaring who they were.
05 Feb 2006
Zionism = Nazism: "These pathologically racist Jewish guys (an anti-Arab/etc anti-Semite) around here, like "Nazis for palestine", ..."
"Holy Shit!" Check this out!
05 Feb 2006
(repost)


"The wrongs of the Holocaust were hardly righted by stealing land from Arabs and giving it to Jews."

read the entire column here: http://www.dailycal.org/article.php?id=3589

.
Zionist Claim To Israel: Modern-Day Apartheid
05 Feb 2006
(repost)


Zionist Claim To Israel: Modern-Day Apartheid

- by Joseph Anderson

Thursday, October 12, 2000

The Sproul Plaza rally this last Thursday in support of Palestinian rights ("Groups Rally to End Mideast Clashes," Oct. 6) brings into clear focus a paradox in the Zionist worldview.

Zionist religious ideology speaks of Israel as "the promised land"—promised to them by “God”! — thousands of years ago! (A claim of "divine rule!") As an African American concerned for the human rights of all people, I offer an alternative to this worldview.

Martin Luther King, Jr. often spoke of "the Dream" of "The Promised Land" for African Americans, as Zionists respectively do for themselves. But, King did not speak of African Americans going back to West Africa, our "Motherland," after almost half a millennium, to find "our land" and dispossess continuously indigenous Africans of theirs. He never talked about seizing someone else's land at all!

The "Motherland" we were taken from 400 to 500 years ago is, of course, just not for us the same motherland that exists at all anymore: we cannot point to "our house," or "our property" — not even "our village."

When King spoke of "the Promised Land," after all this historical time, he meant for us to create a country — a land — and a society of human rights, dignity, social justice, equality for all and a love for all humanity. He meant for all of us Americans — and all of us indeed — to create "The Promised Land" starting in our hearts. King's vision was not chauvinistically nationalistic, not long-desired-for real estate, but ultimately a concept of humanity — a place in the heart!

This is the idea that modern-day Zionists miss. This is the idea that Zionists could have taken from their tragedies and holocaust, as King took from ours. This lack of consciousness is the flaw in "the dream" of modern-day Zionism's "promised land," it takes and subjugates the land of others — it's Israeli apartheid.

The skewed worldview of Zionist ideology arises, I believe, from a particular psychological phenomenon. I believe that Zionists are experiencing, on the level of the Israeli national psyche, the well-known victim's psychological identification reaction, whereby some of those who were once victims of long-term severe abuse and brutality (as European Jews were under Nazism and European anti-Semitism) often go on to abuse and brutalize others. This is in the false belief that no one else, in the victim's mind, has ever really suffered what the victims have suffered — a priority and a monopoly on "real" pain, and a failure to validate another's. Such victims (here Zionists) think that they could never become brutalizers or oppressors themselves, and that no one else can ever really be brutalized or oppressed by them — no matter what is done at their hands or in their name.

Thus, by this belief, Palestinians can never be victims of Zionists, and Zionists can never be oppressors of Palestinians. This represents a double tragedy, like what Albert Einstein said: "It would be my greatest sadness to see Jews do to Arabs [Palestinians] much of what Nazis did to Jews."

___________________________________________
Joseph Anderson is a member of the National
Council for African American Men and a Berkeley
resident. Respond at opinion (at) dailycal.org .

.
The weapons of the poor are _always_ despised.
05 Feb 2006
"Zionism = Racism": "And the problem with people resisting colonization is that sometimes they just won't "fight fair": won't fight the way the colonizer wants them to fight. (In the times of slave revolts, the cry of the brutal slave-owners might have been, "We tried to shoot as many of them as we could, but the savages just kept coming at us with *pitchforks*! Can you *imagine* *that*!? *Pitchforks*! They're *barbaric*, I tell you!")"
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
05 Feb 2006
The lot of you are fucking idiots.

Zionism and anti-semitism are both deplorable. You people are taking sides like the Republicans and Democrats you all oppose.
Not every Jew is part of some Zionist conspiracy, and a good number of them are against Israel's practices. I mean, I'm guessing most of you are Americans. Does that mean you like America's system of government?
I know all about the air strikes, the bulldozers, the snipers and everything else. I side with the Palestinian cause. I understand why there are suicide bombings in Israel. Palestine has gotten the shit end of the stick ever since this conflict began. But if you just run around looking for Jews to accuse them of Zionism, you're no better than the nazi scum that believe we live under a Zionist Occupied Government, and they're at fault for all of our societal ills.
Chip's fertile mind
05 Feb 2006
Chip: "The lot of you are fucking idiots."

Well, _that's_ certainly an intelligent, 'non-idtiotic' way to begin an argument . Did they teach you that debate line opener, Chip, at one of Boston's fine univeresities? And it 'nicely' intellectually(analytically and critically) undifferentiates anything that anyone has said.


Chip: "Zionism and anti-semitism are both deplorable."

Well, finally a concise intelligent statement.


Chip: "You people are taking sides like the Republicans and Democrats you all oppose."

If you ever pay any attention to Congress, Chip, you'll find that the Repubs and the Dems are *BOTH* pro-Zionist parties. Not that the Israel-First lobby gives individual Repub/Dem politicians any other choice, unless they want to be knocked off, politically, and smeared as "anti-Semitic".


Chip: "Not every Jew is part of some Zionist conspiracy,"

Now, Chip, use your vast powers of reading. Has _ANYONE_ said that above? If so, then DOCUMENT it. Pull out such a quote.


Chip: "and a good number of them are against Israel's practices."

Then, unlike the "good number" of "good Germans" of the Nazi-era, those Jews need to stand up and be counted and, indeed, take a stand to that effect. How many of them have so much as voiced even an _anonymous_ opinion in this -- or any other -- indymedia thread? *ZILCH*. *NADA*. *ZERO*.

As author and anti-Zionist Jewish-American Norman Finkelstein said, "At least the 'good Germans' of the Nazi era could argue (however, at times, unpersuasively) that 'they didn't know': no reasonable Jew today can make that argument."


Chip: "I mean, I'm guessing most of you are Americans. Does that mean you like America's system of government?"

It means that when our government is carrying out an illegal or immoral war -- with its expected atrocities -- we need to stand up and be counted and get out in the streets and protest our government and refuse to vote for any politician who supports or continues to fund this (Iraq) war and its occupation. We need to do the same thing for politicians who support or vote to fund the oppression (and slow/semi-genocide) of yet another villified people who were turned into a minority in their own land, as Palestine was once a predominantly _Arab_ country.


Chip: "I know all about the air strikes, the bulldozers, the snipers and everything else. I side with the Palestinian cause. I understand why there are suicide bombings in Israel. Palestine has gotten the shit end of the stick ever since this conflict began."

Well, _another_ intelligent and cogent statement. See, Chip, you _are_ capable of marshalling fundamentally morally conscious and coherent and more erudite expression.


Chip: "But if you just run around looking for Jews to accuse them of Zionism,"

Again, Chip, using your vast powers of reading, why not point out -- DOCUMENT -- pull out a quote above -- where ANYONE has said this.


Chip: "you're no better than the nazi scum that believe we live under a Zionist Occupied Government, and they're at fault for all of our societal ills."

See (my) line above.


So, then, Chip, in all your lack of stomach to carry on a consistently _intellectually critical_ debate, you end by 'intellectually' and indiscriminately flailing around again.

Come back again, Chip, when you've calmed down.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
05 Feb 2006
Thank you Racism. Zionism and anti-semitism and anti-zionism is racism. I know i am concise.
Hey, I'm lloking for a pictur of Mohamed (pbuh) for my religios icon collection. Anybody know where to get one?
Intifada out.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
07 Feb 2006
Michael Lerner on Israel/Palestine
http://www.tikkun.org/core_vision

PEACE, JUSTICE AND RECONCILIATION FOR ISRAEL AND PALESTINE

We are committed to full and complete reconciliation between Israel and the Palestinian people within the context of social justice for the Palestinians and security for Israel. We call upon Israel to end the Occupation, to return settlers to the pre-1967 borders of Israel (providing them with decent housing), and to take major (though not total) responsibility for Palestinian refugees. We oppose Israel’s violations of Palestinian human rights and we insist that Israel adopt a strategy based on open-heartedness toward the Palestinians, repentance for past misdeeds, reparation, and genuine acknowledgement of the ways that some Israelis were oppressive, murderous, and oblivious to the legitimate needs of the Palestinian people. We call for an end to the teachings in Jewish and Israeli schools and media which demean or demonize the Palestinian people; instead we seek to replace those with teachings that emphasize the humanity and goodness of the Palestinian people, Arabs and Muslims. Although we affirm Israel as a Jewish state side by side with Palestine, we believe that all non-Jews in Israel, including most importantly Arab or Palestinian citizens of Israel, should have full civil rights in Israel and equal economic entitlements to any Israeli who has served in the army.

We call upon the Palestinian people to acknowledge the right of Jews to maintain their own homeland in the pre-1967 borders of the state of Israel, with Jewish control over the Jewish section of Jerusalem (including French Hill and Mt. Scopus and the Jewish Quarter of the Old City) and the Western Wall, and unimpeded access to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives. We call upon the Palestinian people to stop acts of terror against Israel and to listen and heed the growing number of Palestinian voices that are calling for a strategy of nonviolent civil disobedience We call upon Palestinians to end all teachings in their schools and media which demean or demonize the Jewish people or Israel and to replace those with teachings that emphasize the humanity and goodness of the Jewish people.

We recognize that some Palestinians will respond by pointing out the structural violence inherent in the presence of the Israeli Occupation and the settlements. We agree with these points, but still believe that the breakthrough necessary to free Palestinians from Occupation will only come when the Israeli people feel enough safety to contemplate arrangements based on trust. Just as Israelis must demonstrate that they see Palestinians as created in the image of God and deserving of full respect, so the Palestinians must demonstrate that they see Israelis as created in the image of God and are deserving of full respect.

Both sides need to recognize a need for repentance for past deeds that were hurtful and oppressive. Jews must understand why Palestinians were fearful that the more highly organized and politically sophisticated Zionist movement that began to emerge in the period 1920-1948 might lead to the disenfranchisement of Palestinians, and why Palestinians today feel that "the right to return" to their homes is no different from the right of return that was at the basis of Zionism.

Similarly, Palestinians need to acknowledge their own role in helping create the conflict by their armed resistance to Jewish immigration to Palestine in the years when Jews were being annihilated or when Jews were crawling out of the death camps and crematoria of Europe.

This is just a sample of the stories we must learn from each other so that we can build reconciliation of the heart, based on genuine compassion for each other. Political arrangements cannot be trusted until there is a serious commitment on both sides to compassionate listening to each other. Its only when both sides can tell the other side's story with compassion and conviction, and both sides recognize that in some important respects both sides are wrong and both sides are right that we can hope to move to a real reconciliation of the heart.

All the fancy agreements and all the political maneuvering is secondary to developing an open-heartedness and generosity in both peoples to the legitimate needs of the other. We believe an important step in that process is for both sides to learn how to tell the other other side's narrative in a convincing and compassionate way. This has been done in part in Rabbi Michael Lerner’s book Healing Israel/Palestine, and in the works of various Israeli and Palestinian thinkers who are able to transcend their own community’s demand for proving that their side is the “righteous victim” and the other side is “the evil oppressor.”

We call upon the United States and other world powers to intervene with all their influence and economic power both to stop the cycle of violence and to achieve the creation of a demilitarized Palestinian state in all of the West Bank and Gaza (minus the most minimal border alterations), an end to the Occupation, and an end to acts of terror. We will support efforts to convince the United States to condition aid to Israel on the end of the Occupation. We call upon the peoples of the world to come to Israel and Palestine and actively interpose ourselves between the warring sides to provide protection to civilians on both sides. And we call for all parties to adopt the nonviolent philosophies and strategies of Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi.

Although we do not support any form of nationalism as an ultimate good, we understand why, in this historical moment, the Jewish people need a state of our own. With memories of the murder and genocide of our people still fresh and the perception that we would have been far less vulnerable had we had a state and an army—with the persistence of virulent anti-Semitism in the world today—the Jewish people cannot be asked to be the first to voluntarily eliminate the protections of the nation state. That’s why, at this point in time, the TIKKUN Community is supporting a two-state rather than a bi-national solution to the Israel-Palestinian crisis, even though some members of our community believe that such a bi-national state is the only way to achieve social justice for Palestinians.

After what Jews have been through, it is not reasonable to expect them to be the first to give up the protections of an armed state. On the other hand, we see nationalism as a perverting influence in Jewish life—and one that must be overcome. So we do hope Israel will become one of the first 20 percent of countries of the world to overcome the trappings of national chauvinism, militarism, and excessive focus on boundaries-—say, for example, after the United States, Russia, China, Japan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, India, Pakistan, England, France, Germany, Italy, Egypt, Poland, Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Uganda, and South Africa have pioneered that path by abolishing borders and accomplished full disarmament. Until then, the Jewish people have a right to their own state, which we hope will eventually move in the direction of confederation with Palestine and Jordan for economic and political cooperation.
Okay, let's look at Lerner's namby-pamby evasive drivel (gee, this is going to take a lot of time to go through this liberal Zionist pablum):
09 Feb 2006
Michael Lerner on Israel/Palestine:

"PEACE, JUSTICE AND RECONCILIATION FOR ISRAEL AND PALESTINE"
http://www.tikkun.org/core_vision


Lerner: "We call upon Israel to end the Occupation, to return settlers to the pre-1967 borders of Israel (providing them with decent housing)..."

PROVIDING THOSE RABIDLY RACISTS 'REDNECK' JEWISH RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST SETTLERS -- WHO'VE EVEN ATTACKED PALESTINIAN CHILDREN ON THEIR WAY TO SCHOOL (just google it) -- WITH "DECENT HOUSING"! WHAT THE FUCK IS *THAT* DEEP CONCERN OF LERNER'S ABOUT...!???

AND HOW ABOUT DESEGREGATING -- DE-APARTHEIDIZING ALL OF PALESTINE, INCLUDING THE ENTIRE STATE OF ISRAEL -- AND ABOLISHING ISRAEL'S RACIST ZIONIST APARTHEID IDEOLOGY-- AND POLITICAL,LEGAL & IDEOLOGICAL SELF-DESIGNATION -- AS "A JEWISH STATE"?

HOW ABOUT ONE UNIFIED STATE, IF THAT'S WHAT THE PALESTINIANS WANT. OR TWO STATES WITH NEITHER ONE DEFINED ON THE BASIS RACE, ETHNICITY, RELIGION OR, OTHERWISE, ANY FORM OF APARTHEID? -- WITH ABSOLUTELY EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL?

HOW ABOUT SENDING THOSE SETTLERS, THAT LERNER IS *SO* CONCERNED ABOUT -- WHOSE HOUSING WAS *HIGHLY* *HIGHLY* SUBSIDIZED IN THE FIRST PLACE BY THE STATE OF ISRAEL -- BACK TO THEIR SUBURBS IN AMERICA AND EUROPE!?


Lerner: "...and to take major (though not total) responsibility for Palestinian refugees."

Why not, necessarily, "total". The Zionists and Israel had "total" responsibility for turning them into a minority and refugees in their own land in the first place and dispossessing them or otherwise running them off -- mostly through (now admitted by "the New Historians" in Israel) direct armed force.


Lerner: "some Israelis were oppressive, murderous, and oblivious to the legitimate needs of the Palestinian people."

"SOME"??? What fuckin' Israeli doesn't know that the Palestinians were driven off of their land? -- WHICH CONTINUES TO THIS DAY! What Zionist Jewish immigrant didn't know then that Palestine was not, "a land without a people"! This remark sounds like the excuses of "the good Germans" of the Nazi era who claimed -- or didn't want to know -- what was happening to the Jews in Nazi Europe!


Lerner: "We call for an end to the teachings in Jewish and Israeli schools and media which demean or demonize the Palestinian people;"

WELL, I'M GLAD THAT LERNER AT LEAST ACKNOWLEGED THAT!


Lerner: "...Although we affirm Israel as a Jewish state side by side with Palestine..."

I KNOW THAT **HITLER** TRIED TO WIPE POLAND OFF THE MAP, BUT ISRAEL IS ***IN*** PALESTINE.

OTHERWISE, LERNER "AFFIRMS" THAT, NOW THAT WE ZIONISTS HAVE ABOUT 85-90% OF PALESTINE, LET'S CALL IT EVEN AND KEEP OUR "JEWISH STATE" -- EVEN THOUGH AT LEAST 20% OF THE PEOPLE LIVING WITHIN ISRAEL ITSELF ARE PALESTINIAN (which Israel refuses to call Palestinians -- it goes to well with, ahem, "PALESTINE").

AND ALMOST *HALF* OF "GREATER ISRAEL, OR WHAT THE DIEHARD RABID RACIST RELIGIOUS ZIONIST -- ESPECIALLY THE JEWISH SETTLERS -- CALL "ERETZ ISRAEL" IS PALESTINIANS -- NOT INCUDING THOSE PALESTINIANS WHO HAVE BEEN EXILED OUT OF PALESTINE ENTIRELY.

WHERE'S THE "HUMANITY AND GOODNESS" THERE!?

WHERE'S THE "JUSTICE" *THERE*, MICHAEL?

GEE, MICHAEL, WHAT DID BLACKS USED TO SAY DURING AMERICAN 'JIM CROW' SEGREGATION / APARTHEID?: "WHY *THANKS*, MISTAH JONNNES...! THAT'S MIGHTY *WHITE* OF YOU!"


Lerner: " we believe that all non-Jews in Israel, including most importantly Arab or Palestinian citizens of Israel, should have full civil rights in Israel and equal economic entitlements to any Israeli who has served in the army."

Now, how are Palestinians and other non-Jews supposed to have all these equal rights in a politically, ethnically, and legally self-defined "Jewish State"?

That's like saying that Blacks could have had full equal rights in "A Jim Crow State" or in "A White State" or in "An White Afrikaner State" -- or that Jews could have equal rights in "An Aryan Christian State".

It's also akin to saying that people can have equal rights in a "separate but equal" state.

IS LERNER *RENOUNCING* ZIONISM!???

(End of analysis of Paragraph 1. More analysis later. Shit, I don't have all night for this. As they say, a *LIE* -- even _a liberal Zionist's_ LIES -- can make it all around the world, before the *TRUTH* even has a chance to lace up its boots.)

AS ONE ANTI-ZIONIST JEWISH FRIEND OF MINE SAYS (TYPICAL OF OTHER PRO-PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS JEWS) EVERYTIME HE HEARS ABOUT LERNER: "WHERE'S A *BARF* BAG!?"

.
NO ONE has a _right_ to self-determination 'in their ancient ancestral homeland' from 2,000 years ago 1,000's of miles away on another inhabited continent and land at the expense of the people who actually _LIVE_ there!
09 Feb 2006
OH, I JUST *COULDN'T RESIST THIS IN PARAGRAPH 2 OF LERNER'S LIBERAL ZIONIST DRIVEL!

SO I BASICALLY CUT-&-PASTED FROM THE TITLE OF A POST ABOVE.

Lerner: "We call upon the Palestinian people to acknowledge the right of Jews to maintain their own homeland..."

So, among other things, Israel *KEEPS* having a right to move in thousands of Jews, semi-Jews, and quasi-Jews, and FICTIVE Jews (remember the Russian 'Jews' who didn't even know they were Jewish and the 'Jewish' mountain Peruvian Indians Israel declared -- "ABRAHIM CADABRAHIM! POOF! YOU'RE A JEW!" --and moved in to Israel? -- almost anything to offset the Palestinians, especially birthrate) every year at the expense of the Palestinians?

NOW *I'M* GETTING NAUSEOUS...!


(Hey, "Messenger" Michael, I'm glad you finally saw this thread.)
'Liberal Zionist' apologist
09 Feb 2006
That's Michael Lerner.
'Liberal Zionist' apologist
09 Feb 2006
That's Michael Lerner.

A New Age huckster and a charlatan.

I 'admire' the sheer open Jewish-supremacist honesty of the BLATANT hardcore Zionist Jews more.
Lerner: "the right of Jews to maintain their _*OWN*_ homeland..." [?????]
09 Feb 2006
Lerner: "Lerner: "We call upon the Palestinian people to acknowledge the right of Jews to maintain their own homeland..."

IN SOMEBODY _ELSE'S_ LAND???

Look, there hasn't been a Jewish kingdom in Palestine for 2,000 years! And the ancient Hebrews weren't the first people there anyway (not that that even matters). What if ALL of us went back with our particular ethnic group and imposed a displacing nation-state for ourselves where our ancient religious ancestors once lived for some period of time 2,000 years ago and where hundreds of thousands or millions of other people now live/d in modern times?

Only white-supremacy - Christian or Jewish - could find that to be a valid moral proposition applied to the 3rd World.

Lerner's just a glib "New Age" RACIST.
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
09 Feb 2006
Thanks for the good work!
heads up on Michael Lerner
10 Feb 2006
Not many, if any, potential audience members will probably even get a chance to ask Lerner about any of the deeper moral issues in this thread.

The ole windbag will probably employ his standard practice (I've seen him in action before):

He will talk FOREVER in his new age spiritualism mumbo-jumbo. He will thus wear his audience down -- as people get worn out and leave in a series of ones, twos, and fews, if not in groups -- to the last relatively few holdouts.

Then there will only -- calculatedly -- be time left (maybe only 15 minutes) for a few questions, although many questioners are likely to be lined up at the Q/comment-&-A microphone(s).

If there is a microphone, he will let long-winded fluff-ball or fawning questioners (any that don't seem to be an intellectual threat) go on forever, to eat up time.

Or, more probably, those many questions/comments might very well only be taken on *small* index cards -- which essentially limits all remarks to 30 seconds, this avoids anyone being able to meaningfully frame or contextualize their question/comment -- and even then any semblance of truly morally challenging questions will be sifted out.

But, the moderator may insist, "We'll only take questons -- no comments," thus precluding any meaningful critique. (You can always end your public comment with, "What do you think about that?")

Lerner will give long-winded (10-15, maybe even 20, minute) more mumbo-jumbo answers (then the remaining audience will be lucky if there's time for 2 or 3 questions), saying substantively NOTHING (unless you like to hear new age spiritual mumbo-jumbo), to prodigiously eat up more time.

This will also cause more audience members, increasingly, by Lerner's calculated strategy, worn out, to leave. You'll be lucky if 10-15% of the audience remains by the time Lerner finishes (he will have purposedly bored the rest of them nearly comotose): this is also a calculated tactic to make sure that as few as people as possible get to hear any truly challenging question or comment to Lerner. Any morally and intellectually serious person might very well leave the room asking, "I gave up my evening for this?"

You see, Lerner is really just promoting HIMSELF -- oh, and his magazine -- he's not promoting any real substantive presentation or real dialogue or deeper moral inquiry. And, of course, he's there to be a liberal guilt-self-relieving Zionist apologist for Israel -- his role, otherwise, is a 5th column Zionist in the liberal or progressive movement -- and to make a moral _equivalency(!!)_ between the invader (Zionist Jewish influx) and the invaded (the indigenous Palestinians), between the colonizers and the colonized.

Now, maybe Lerner will have seen this thread and modify his game plan, somewhat -- or, maybe not.
Okay, let's look through more of Michael Lerner's namby-pamby evasive and RACIST drivel:
11 Feb 2006
Lerner: "We call upon the Palestinian people to acknowledge the right of Jews to maintain their own homeland in the pre-1967 borders of the state of Israel,"

Well, there have been other posts about THE SHEER RIDICULOUSNESS of this ARROGANT and RACIST claim. NO ONE has a right to go claim "their ANCIENT homeland" in ANOTHER people's land. Palestine was about 95% NON-JEWISH before the Zionist influx of European Jews. And it certainly wasn't "a land without a people" as 750,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians were driven off through various means -- but mostly throughWESTERN IMPERIALIST INTERVENTION (especially in the form of the UN) and through FORCE and JEWISH TERRORISM -- to bring about the state of Israel. The indigneous people who lived in Palestine had lived their (or their direct ancestors) CONTINUOUSLY for more than 2,000 years. Many Palestinian Arabs could trace their direct families living in their homes and on their land for 100 YEARS to CENTURIES.

Jews have NO RIGHT to, in particular, "a[n ideologically/religiously] Jewish state" in ANY part of Palestine -- just like whites/Afrikaners had to right to "a white Apartheid state" in any part of South Africa. And for Michael Lerner to say so represents the highest form of Western European arrogance: RACISM.

If Jews want to live in Palestine, they can live there as whites do in South Africa -- in a pluralistic multicultural society with absolutely equal rights for all regardless of race/ethnicity or religion. (Hopefully most of the hardcore racist Jews will leave -- but I hope they don't come here. Maybe Antarctica.)

Lerner: " with Jewish control over the Jewish section of Jerusalem (including French Hill and Mt. Scopus and the Jewish Quarter of the Old City) and the Western Wall, and unimpeded access to the cemetery on the Mount of Olives." Well, first of all here, "the Jewish section" (including the Jewish suburbs) of Jerusalem keeps *GREATLY* expanding by leaps and bounds because Jews keep taking more and more Palestinian land. Otherwise, Palestinians -- UNLIKE JEWS -- are forbidden to expand their homes (not so much as a room addition) for, perhaps, a growing family. Palestinians certainly are forbidden to buy more land -- UNLIKE JEWS. This situation represents parts of THE JEWISH 'JIM CROW' / APARTHEID LAWS in Israel/Palestine.

There are also other RACIAL LAWS -- like forms of ANTI-MISCEGENATION LAWS (hindrance restrictions on marriages between Jews and Palestinians, especially in terms of where they can live and who can get citizenship) in Israel that amount, in total, to ISRAEL'S 'NUREMBURG LAWS'.

Lerner: "We call upon the Palestinian people to stop acts of terror against Israel and to listen and heed the growing number of Palestinian voices that are calling for a strategy of nonviolent civil disobedience"

First of all here, political ZIONISM has been the OVERWHELMING act of terror in Palestine: the removal of the Palestinian people through armed force -- VIOLENCE -- including direct massacres, the obliteration of over 400 Palestinian towns and villages, and the most TERRORISTIC Zionist methods by ANY definition of the word TERRORISM, just by the time that Israel declared itself a state.

But, the COLONIALISTS always want the indigenous/native people to only use the methods of 'resistance' that the *COLONIALISTS* prescribe -- and that is, typically, of course, "nonviolent". Well, the Zionists did not invade nonviolently; the Palestinians have no oblivation to resist nonviolently. Besides, every int'l law and moral principle gives an invaded invaded innocent people the right to whatever form of resistance they choose, including armed defense.

Lerner: "We call upon Palestinians to end all teachings in their schools and media which demean or demonize the Jewish people or Israel and to replace those with teachings that emphasize the humanity and goodness of the Jewish people."

First of all here, Israel -- unlike the Zionsts, including Michael Lerner would want even all Jews to believe, let alone the rest of us -- does NOT represent, nor is the equivalent to all the Jewish people or Judaism. In fact, I would say that to equate the human rights crimes of Zionism to all of the Jewish people or Judaism is itself ANTI-SEMITIC -- although clearly not enough Jews around the world, who may not identify with or want anything to do with Zionism are not doing enough -- JUST LIKE "the good Germans" and the early Nazis and then growing Nazi anti-Semitism -- to stand up and publicly oppose it -- under far greater freedom and far less danger than "the good Germans" had.

Second, what A SICKENING *INSULT* that Michael Lerner would slap in the face of the Palestinians! Why should the Palestinians embrace "the humanity and goodness" of the people who have been aggressively dispossessing them (the Palestinians) and/or brutally colonizing Palestine for over 65 years. The Palestinians will embrace "the humanity and goodness" of their invaders when their invaders start BEHAVING with "humanity and goodness".

But gee, the Palestinians hardly need to learn to demean or demonize Israeli/Zionist Jews in Palestinian schools! And that's an apochryphal canard -- a fabricated and false urban legend -- spread by Israeli/Zionist Jews anyway. Israeli/Zionist Jews themselves have been directly doing a pretty good job of teaching Palestinians how to demean and demonize Israelis/Zionists through over 65 years of Jewish terrorist groups, militia, or ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM/VIOLENCE.

NO LESS THAN GANDHI CALLED ZIONISM "A CRIME *AGAINST* HUMANITY".

IT'S LIKE THE ARAB GUY IN THE DOCUMENTARY FILM "CONTROL ROOM" SAID, "THE WEST NOT ONLY WANTS TO INVADE US, THEY WANT US TO *LIKE* IT [AND THEM] TOO!"
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
13 Feb 2006
DON'T FORGET!!
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
13 Feb 2006
ANNOUNCEMENT
Re: Michael Lerner, Cambridge 2/14, Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right
14 Feb 2006
ANNOUNCEMENT
ANALYSIS OF LAST SUMMARY PARAGRAPH OF MICHAEL LERNER'S PABLUM SCREED — 07 FEB 2006 POST:
14 Feb 2006
I'm JUMPING AHEAD to the last paragraph of Michael Lerner's pablum, the only post on 07 Feb 06 below -- because there really is a LOT of capped off, summarizing HYPOCRITICAL DRIVEL by this glib, 'New Age' liberal moral slimeball HUCKSTER AND CHARLATAN Michael Lerner there. But because white Westerners are so even subconsciously racistly mentally conditioned against non-Europeans, that last paragraph -- as well as all the other paragraphs in his spurious, specious and duplicitous PR "message" for "Peace, Justice and Reconciliation" -- might actually sound, well, "reasonable".


Lerner: "After what Jews have been through, it is not reasonable to expect them to be the first to give up the protections of an armed state." "

Well, it certainly *IS* "reasonable" for Israeli Jews to give up -- like South Africa at last -- AN APARTHEID COLONIAL STATE, especially one BASED ON A LIE that Palesine was "A LAND WITHOUT A PEOPLE"!

And, again, the state of Israel is *NOT* the equivalent of all Jews in the world or in modern history! It's *ANTI-SEMITIC* to directly associate the mass land theft, the conspiracy to mass dispossess others, and the most relentless at least 65-years human rights crimes with ALL Jews. Many Jews -- though not nearly enough -- including holocaust survivors and former anti-Nazi resistance fighters -- MORALLY **REJECT** THE ZIONIST ISRAELI APARTHEID STATE. They morally reject an ideologically, politically and legalized "Jewish state" based in an inhabited land where the OVERWHELMING population was non-Jewish and where even today almost HALF the population is Palestinian -- and where inside the borders of Israel itself *20%* of the population is non-Jewish (Palestinian Muslims, Christians, other religions, and secular). By comparison about 12% of the overall American population is Black.


Lerner: "On the other hand, we see nationalism as a perverting influence in Jewish life—and one that must be overcome."

Moral HYPOCRITICAL perverts is right! After all they go on and on about the Jewish Holocaust, what the Nazis did, and how the average Nazi-era German turned their heads away. Pro-Israel/Zionist Jews are HISTORY'S BIGGEST HYPOCRITES!!


Lerner: "So we do hope Israel will become one of the first 20 percent of countries of the world to overcome the trappings of national chauvinism, militarism, and excessive focus on boundaries-—say, for example, after the United States, Russia, China, Japan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, India, Pakistan, England, France, Germany, Italy, Egypt, Poland, Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Uganda, and South Africa have pioneered that path by abolishing borders and accomplished full disarmament."

Maybe we all should have waited until the world had "overcome the trappings of national chauvinism", "abolishing borders and accomplished full disarmament", before we ended SLAVERY in the U.S., before we ended JIM CROW in the U.S., before we granted women THE RIGHT TO VOTE and EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW, before we ended the GENOCIDAL Vietman War, before we ended the GENOCIDAL U.S. proxy terrorist Contra war in Nicaragua, before we got South Africa to end APARTHEID, and before we ended NAZISM, "THE *ARYAN* STATE", and the Jewish HOLOCAUST!

Michael Lerner's 'until we get to Never Never Land' -- OH, IT'S 'NEVER NEVER' EVEN FOR LIBERAL RACIST, GROSSLY HYPOCRITICAL ZIONIST APOLOGISTS LIKE LERNER ALRIGHT -- intellectually sickening moral excuse is morally nauseating!


Lerner: "Until then, the Jewish people have a right to their own state,..."

_NO ONE_ HAS — AND _NO_ AMOUNT OF SUFFERING GIVES ANYONE — A MORAL RIGHT TO A RACIALLY AND IDEOLOGICALLY SELF-DEFINED AND THUS INHERENTLY *RACIST* NATION-STATE — ESPECIALLY IN THE MODERN WORLD.

NO WONDER MICHAEL LERNER — WITH HIS NEW AGE LIBERAL JEWISH CHAUVINIST RACISM — MAKES MANY ANTI-ZIONIST JEWS **BARF**!!
FINAL ANALYSIS OF MICHAEL LERNER'S PABLUM
14 Feb 2006
Lerner: "This has been done in part in Rabbi Michael Lerner’s book Healing Israel/Palestine, and in the works of various Israeli and Palestinian thinkers who are able to transcend their own community’s demand for proving that their side is the “righteous victim” and the other side is “the evil oppressor.” ...Both sides need to recognize a need for repentance for past deeds that were hurtful and oppressive."

But Zionist Jews *ARE* "the evil oppressor[colonialist invaders]" in Palestine-Israel.

Maybe the Jews of Nazi Germany should have "transcend[ed] their own community’s demand for proving that their side is the “righteous victim” and the other side is “the evil oppressor.” Maybe Jews "need[/ed] to recognize a need for repentance for past deeds that were hurtful and oppressive" to the *Nazis*!

After all, Hitler, with his people/country wretchedly oppressed by the indeed UNJUST Treaty of Versailles, just wanted to gather all the ethnic German diaspora, dispersed over Eastern Central Europe, into one exclusivist German state: "An Aryan Christian State".


Lerner: "Jews must understand ... why Palestinians today feel that "the right to return" to their homes is no different from the right of return that was at the basis of Zionism."

A "Right of Return" based on "Zionism"!? Political Zionism, which was conceived around the +/-1890's (around the time that the U.S. was finishing up its extermination of the Native Americans), started *LONG* before Nazi Germany. Now, during the Armenian genocide in Turkey, many Armenians refugees fled to Palestine -- and had an Armenian quarter in Jerusalem -- but they didn't go there to pushed the Palestinian Arabs off the land, take the place over, and set up a racially exclusive "Armenian State"!

What Michael Lerner does in all his PSEUDO-LIBERAL ZIONIST PABLUM is to repeatedly try to make morally equivalent the OPPRESSED and the OPPRESSOR, the Zionist invaders and the indigenous/native Palestinians.