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Announcement :: Race
Nazis back AGAIN!
09 May 2006
Don't they ever give up?
It seems the 'white bread wonders' are at it again. They plan on showing up for the Boston Celebrates Israel party on June 18th at City Hall. I'm not a big fan of oppressive zionism, but these guys are way worse! They plan on getting some of their own speakers too . .
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Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
09 May 2006
It is impossible to celebrate Israel without celebrating nazism if by definition it is the favoring of one group over another.

A few things you are not supposed to know about Israel:
· Did you know that Israel have killed more that 8 hundred Palestinian children in the past four years?
· Did you know that Israel has devastated about three hundred houses in just four years thus making thousands of Palestinians homeless?
· Did you know that 90 years ago the Arabs of Palestine owned 97.5% of the land, while Jews (native Palestinians and recent immigrants together) owned only 2.5% of the land? And that now the Jews own more than 80%?
· Did you know that Palestinians have the highest ratio of PhDs per capita in the world?
· Did you know that the Prime Minister of the Zionist entity, Sharon, is on the list of war criminals for killing thousands of innocent Palestinians?
· Did you know that four prime ministers of Israel, Begin, Shamir, Rabin, and Sharon have taken part in either bomb attacks on civilians, massacres of civilians, or forced expulsions of civilians from their villages?
· Did you know Sharon was held responsible for the massacre of more than 2, 750 Palestinians in the refugee camps of Sabra and Chatila. The UN qualified the massacre by Sharon as GENOCIDE.
· Did you know Did you know Sharon's commando unit in 1953 razed the Palestinian village of Qibya killing all its citizens and bombed all the houses, mosque and schools.
· Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in the Zionist entity?
· Did you know that Palestinian license plates in Zionist entity are color coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?
· Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians?
· Did you know the United States awards the Israel $5 billion in aid each year?
· Did you know that yearly US aid to Israel exceeds the aid the US grants to the whole African continent?
· Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?
· Did you know that the Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?
· Did you know that Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations (Lebanon and Syria) in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
· Did you know that Israel has for decades routinely sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies?
· Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defense Forces have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed by the IDF?
· Did you know that Israel refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
· Did you know that Israel routinely confiscates bank accounts, businesses, and land and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer the confiscation?
· Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship in international waters, killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors?
· Did you know that the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders, is the Jewish AIPAC?
· Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?
· Did you know that today's Israel sits on the former sites of more than 400 now-vanished Palestinian villages, and that the Israeli’s re- named almost every physical site in the country to cover up the traces?
· Did you know that it was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads?
· Did you know that four prime ministers of Israel (Begin, Shamir, Rabin, and Sharon) have taken part in either bomb attacks on civilians, massacres of civilians, or forced expulsions of civilians from their villages?
· Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays two American public relations firms to promote Israel to Americans?
· Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party -- Molodet -- which advocates expelling all Palestinians from the occupied territories?
· Did you know that Israel’s settlement-building increased in the eight years since Oslo?
· Did you know that settlement building under Barak doubled compared to settlement building under Netanyahu?
· Did you know that Israel once dedicated a postage stamp to a man who attacked a civilian Palestinian bus and killed several people?
· Did you know that recently declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion approved of the expulsion of Palestinians in 1948?
· Did you know that torture by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners is more brutal than what happened in Abu Ghreeb in Iraq?
· Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
yes. we did know that the israeli government sucks. we do know that the palestinians need a lot of help or they're fucked. know what else i know? the nazis killed 6,000,000 of my people. i have friends who lost relatives to the nazis. no matter what you say, the nazis were worse than the israeli government is now. fuck OFF.
FUCK NAZIS. i will be there no doubt.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
free palistine by the way. i mean that sincerely, it's just stupid to compare the israeli government with the nazis.
Lions and Tigers and Nazis oh MY!!
10 May 2006
Freeing Palestine means one thing-dismantling the illegal and out of control Zionist state.

Protesting the protesting neoNazis just draws attention to them--who would want that? Who doesn't already know that Nazis are bad? That counterprotest is so not about protesting Nazis--It's about showing support for Israel. period.

When we get real answers for why over 100 Israelis were found spying in America pre-9/11, then MAYBE we can decide if we, as Americans, support Israel.

How is it that a country can repeatedly spy on America when it is the biggest recipipent of US aid? And on top of that corrupt our political system with their lobby which also harbors spies?

I'm in no way an advocate of any "Jewish conspiracy" but what the fuck? I don't support the Zionist state and will NOT be there to fight off the Nazis they more than likely hire to show up at these things in order to get a good turnout of vocal "supporters". How many freaking times must people come out against Nazis? This is BS, sorry to say, and any self-respecting activist who falls for this should be ashamed.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
Yeah let's go show our support for ISRAEL! Yay Israel! We love ya!

911 Israeli Spy Report
FOX Was Forced To Pull

Part 1 - - VIDEO

Note that in the first segment of the series a highly placed US investigator states, "evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." This statement suggests that such evidence must exist, since there would be no need for classification if nothing had been found.

Part 2 - - VIDEO

In this segment of the report, American terrorist investigators fear certain suspects in the Sept. 11 attacks may have managed to stay ahead of them, by knowing who and when investigators are calling on the telephone; information provided by an Israeli-owned (and IDF funded) telephone company at which several of the arrested Israeli 9/11 suspects worked.

Part 3 - - VIDEO

In this third report, it is revealed that the wiretapping capability that is permanently built into your telephone is built, installed, and maintained by yet another Israeli owned company and that this equipment is suspected of having a "back door" which allows the Mossad to use the same equipment to wiretap any telephone in America by remote control. (Is this how they got "that" tape of Bill and Monica?)

Part 4 - - VIDEO

In this final part of the report, Fox News shows how the availability of information on police phone calls resulted in the collapse of an investigation of a drug and fraud crime ring with Israeli connections. Investigators traced the information, which included calls to police investigators' beepers, to Amdocs. Note that 50% of the R&D costs of Comverse Infosys are paid by the Israeli Government.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
I love "free palestine's rant.

what better illustration of the utter insanity of anti-Israeli fanatics(as opposed to rational critics), anti-Semites, and 9/11 conspiracy fruitcakes. Keep it up please. You and the Palesitnian leaders reinforce each other's paranoia and utter ineffectiveness.

Perhaps "free palestine" is a Mossad creation?
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
Here's what happens every time:

1) Zionists hold rally, march, spitting match, whatever.

2) neo-Nazis publicize their intention to "Show dem Jews" or some such prattle.

3) Honest and conscientious anti-Zionists then face a choice-- let the only counter-demo be Nazis, OR show up and be lumped in with the Nazis in the Zionists' propaganda.

If I were a Zionist, I would have Nazis follow me EVERYWHERE. that way no one could criticize me without associating themselves with Nazis.

This is such a painfully obvious tactic that only really dumbed down masses would buy into it. Welcome to America.

Land of the sucker-punched chumps who always beg for more!
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
makes very little sense to me to be competing one fucked system against another- maybe the scale of the killing was greater in one but there's no way good people can ever choose a lesser evil between nazism and zionist apartheid. we will have to make sure the nazis don't try to associate themselves with the legitimate anti-zionist demonstration, and that they are relegated to the obscurity which they so richly deserve.
Insight at a Snail's Pace
10 May 2006
Shell equates zionism with nazism. ironically, the ideology that murdered people in excess of the Nazies by use of the State knows best argument was the Communist Soviet Union.

Even Khruschev (know who he is Shell?) denounced Stalin's crimes as did many socialists while Stalin's crimes were denied by fellow travelers in the liberal press.

Communism=Nazism. Sounds better. Balances. Something hefty there. Like tens of millions of bodies.

I don't remember Hitler or Stalin withdrawing from Poland or Lithuania. I dont remember them "negotiating" with their enemies.

The equatiion of Zionism, which has made mistakes aplenty, with Nazism is false, disingenuous, and cruel. The libellers who make the charge act with malice. They know that nothing can hurt Jews more than equation of an Israeli state, recognized by most nations of the world and dealt with in commerce by practically every nation with Nazi Germany. Hitler would sneer at the peaceful demonstrations in Israel against government policies and the presence of Arab nationalist and Communist deputies in the Israel Knesset. If Hiter ran Israel, the West Bank Arabs would have been expelled or liquidated years ago. The model is not just the Holocaust, but Stalin "resettlement" of millions of non-russian minorities.

Stick to issues.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
Stick to issues? See your post above. You make the mistake of equating the Zionist project with Judaism. Do you ever stop to think that there are plenty of Jews, especially religious ones who see no need for and much harm in doing God's work by bringing into being the promised land? Can you see what a blasphemy that is? ANd to do so by expelling the people who had been living there for hundreds of years? Did you ever think that maybe the Holocaust means nothing to the poeple whose children are being killed in part because they oppose illegal settlement and confiscation of their land? Are those children to blame for the actions of Hamas, which may or may not be aided and abetted by national intelligence services? Are any people collectively to blame for the actions of a single criminall? Do you ever stop to think that maybe everyone does want to live in peace with their Jewish friends, neighbors, lovers, and spouses but that the existence and behavior of Israel, as well the Zionists' constant guilting of them, might hinder that desire on our part for a race/religion blind world? I mean, can you see that this is not a black/white issue?
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
yeah, stalin was one twisted, murdering egomaniac wasn't he? too bad you aren't organizing a demonstration against him, or communism- and people are actually having a conversation here about zionism and nazism.

"I don't remember Hitler or Stalin withdrawing from Poland or Lithuania. I dont remember them "negotiating" with their enemies."
i remember the nazis getting their asses handed to them in russia, and 'withdrawing' as a consequence. no hitler didn't negotiate with the people germany occupied, but he would have had to, if he hadn't blown his brains out. so i guess the zionists can choose: withdraw or get kicked out (like lebanon); negotiate or commit suicide.
sounds like a fair deal to me.
Before You Clam Up, May I Be Of Service?
10 May 2006
I am having a demonstration against Stalin and communism. You just responded to it.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
10 May 2006
Denigration. Is that how you spell it.

How would you like it if someone were to kick you in the ass? No, you wouldn't like it??? So, why not turn around so they can kick you in the balls??? Then you would know how good it is to get kicked in the ass.

Zionists, they're are not as bad as Nazis were.

That should be on AIPAC's letter head.

Noah wrote something interesting. And by interesting, naturaly I mean fuked up. He seems to think that because he has friends who lost relatives to nazis, that 6 million Jews were killed by nazis. Well, there are Iraqis who have lost relatives to Bush's invasion. That doesn't mean that bush's invasion killed over 100000 iraqis. No, there is OTHER evidence that can be sighted to push that allegation; where as there is NO evidence of 6 million Jews being intentionaly killed by Nazis. Whole families of iraqis have been killed by Bush's invasion. That fact does not show that Bush's invasion killed over 100000 Iraqis. Again, there is OTHER evidence to support that allegation where there is still no evidence supporting the allegations of 6 million Jews being killed by Nazis.

I have met Palestinians who have lost relatives to Zionist invadors. Entire families of Palestinians have been killed in the ZIonist's war of conquest against palestinians. Again, what does this tell us? Not a whole lot other than that Zionists are as offensive as nazis are known to have been.
Love a Commie; They're Not As Bad As Nazis
11 May 2006
Troll, is this what yu mean?
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
so troll, how many jews do you think the Nazis did kill in WW2? I think we have to be very careful--while the true number may not have been 6 million, that doesn't mean it was 0, 10,000 or even one million. I think for the sake of the honesty of this debate, anyone questioning aspects of the holocaust should be specific about where they think the truth lies and why, not just impugn the numbers. exaggeration and fabrication are two very different things. one is quite believable, the other seems not quite so.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
From what is available, between 350000 and 400000, mostly from typhus and other jail house illnesses. And that evidence doesn't appeare to be fabrication. If there is evidence of more, it is not being presented.

but that isn't the point I was making, is it? I just pointed out that knowing of Jews who were killed isn't evidence of 6 million or of death camps. Knowing of whole families of Jews who died isn't evidence of 6 million or of death camps, like knowing of whole families of iraqis being killed isn't evidence of 100000 Iraqis being killed by Bush's war. There are other sorces of information that support the 100000 Iraqis being killed.

Since Zionists and AIPAC use the holocaust allegations to solicite support for thier bloodsoaked war of conquest against palestinians, the onus is on them to provide more than just allegations of death camps. If there were actual facts to support thier claims, they would present them as they present thier allegations. The fact that they present no aditional evidence just hurts thier own suppositions.

But it is still a mut point even if they someday do present evidence of holocaust. What happens thousands of miles away from palestine doesn't give ZIonists a birthright of murderous theft of even 1 single rock in Palestine.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
ok, TT, fair enough. I think I agree most with your last point--no matter how bad the Nazis were, it doesn't follow that Zionists should have then been given land that wasn't anyones to give except the inhabitants who obviously objected. I mean, given the injustices suffered by central americans at the hands of us suported terrorists and dictators, still no one would suggest that kicking everyone else out of Manhattan and giving it to a CentroAmericanist project to make a homeland where they would be safe from future Contras, etc.

The holocaust would seem then to be a related but separate issue. The fact that Zionists and the Holocaust Industry have exploited Jewish suffering is something verifiable and wrong, as anyone who has read Norman Finkelstein's work can attest to. Truth cuts both ways.

I do think though that there is a case to be made that the Holocaust numbers may have been exaggerated, not by the victims themsleves, but by unethical Zionist fanatics. Let's be clear--there is nothing inherently wrong with a Jewish homeland if it is brought into being in a fair and just manner, which the one called Israel was obviously not.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
It's great that everyone is trolling and arguing back and forth, but WTF is going on on Sunday !!!!!!!
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
i say just let everyone ignore the Nazis like they normally would. The Zionists, on the other hand, must be confronted. There is no cause to celebrate Israel, a country that spies on America repeatedly and with impunity. The cradle of the American revolution is the last place where they should bring their horse and pony show. By all means make your anti-nazi statements , posters, flyers, or whatever--just don't fall for the distraction tactics--keep the focus on the absurd "celebration" of Israel.
Re:Smash the Nazis!
11 May 2006
Labor Unions, leftists, and minorities must oppose the Right Wing fascists on the streets when they hold public demonstrations. The Capitalists government is not neutral and can not be trusted to oppose the fascists. They keep them in reserve.

What fascists are ultimately afraid of when they are faced down on the street is that they are rendered ineffective. The job of the KKK, the Nazis, the Black and Tans, the Freedcorps, the Black Hundreds, the South American Death Squads, is to operate in an extra legal manner to terrorize the population into submitting to the rule of the capitalist bosses.

When the cops can’t go around executing people without making people lose faith in the system, the fascist groups are capitalisms mad dog that can be set loose while the bosses claim they can’t control them. The fascists job is to terrorize people. When they come out on the street and they are the ones who are terrified of the organized opposition they are failing to do what the bosses keep them around for.

When every fascist demonstration results in a big demonstration of leftist lead workers the ’fascists’ bring about exactly the opposite of what the bosses want. Funding for the fascists falls off, the fascists are humiliated and look like losers.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
Liam, I look forward to visiting you in the hospital after you fight the Nazis. What flavor ice cream do you like?
A petition to the guardians of decency
11 May 2006
Memo to Socially Concerned BIMC: The Troll uses the precise arguments of the Institute for Holocaust Studies in denying widely accepted Fatality numbers for Jewish prisoners in Death Camps. I trust that you will delete his posts as you would not allow a David Irving or David Duke to promote these fables on your site.

If you have already taken this obviously necessary action, may I thank you in advance for your prompt adherence to your stated guidelines.

With best wishes for informative and honest debates in the future, I remain your Faithful Servant

Re: SMASH the Nazis!
11 May 2006
I think the ISO did a good thing helping to organize an action against Fascists in Toledo, OH. This is from "Socialist Worker"

"OFFICIALS IN Toledo, Ohio, imposed a state of a state of emergency and an 8 p.m. curfew October 15 following clashes between police and anti-Nazi protesters.

Earlier in the day, the hundreds of antiracists forced the cancellation of an attempted march by a neo-Nazi group, the so-called National Socialist Movement, through a mostly African American neighborhood of North Toledo. The counterprotest of activists and neighborhood residents swelled to 600 as it faced 15 Nazis standing in “formation” on the lawn of Woodward High School.

The size and anger of the crowd frightened Toledo officials into hustling the Nazis out of the area, but no one told the demonstrators. When several hundred people headed for where they thought the racists would march, they were met by lines of riot cops who went on a rampage, arresting, tear-gassing and setting off concussion grenades.

By the end of the afternoon, the anger--at both the racists and the police and city officials who protected them--boiled over into a full-scale rebellion. Multiple police, medical and news vehicles were damaged, and at least one fire was started. Police arrested more than 100 people, and Democratic Mayor Jack Ford called a dusk-to-dawn curfew for two successive nights.

Ford and other officials blamed the clashes on everyone but the Nazis--street gangs, outside agitators and so on. But residents of the neighborhood placed the blame where it belongs. “They don’t have the right to bring hate to my front yard,” resident Terrance Anderson told a reporter.

The line from city officials was little different from the statements of Nazis, who told the media that they were coming to march in Toledo to protect white people from Black gangs. Alice Lee, a lifelong resident of North Toledo, saw it differently. “It’s ridiculous for them to say they’re going to take back the neighborhood. They don’t even live here. This has been our neighborhood since the 1920s.”

In the days leading up to the event, Ford and other city officials pleaded with residents to “ignore” the Nazis. An “Erase the Hate” event was planned at the local Zabloski Center, offering free pizza to anyone who would ignore Nazis marching in their neighborhood.

Many antiracists ignored Ford, instead planning for a counter-demonstration to confront the Nazis.

Meanwhile, Toledo police revealed their true colors when Gregg Harris, president of the police union, stated that the antiracist demonstrators were “no better or no different in my opinion than the neo-Nazis. They’re a hate group just as well.”

On the morning of October 15, about 150 anti-Nazi activists marched down Stickney Avenue in North Toledo to join a large group of residents gathering across the street from the high school where the Nazis stood. The crowd continued to grow in size and confidence, but remained peaceful in spite of a barricade of cops forming a human wall in front of demonstrators. Chanting drowned out any filth that the tiny group of racists may have been spewing.

Eventually, the counterprotest grew to more than 600 people, and their antiracist shouts became deafening. Tony Martin, a lifelong resident of Toledo, said he had never experienced anything like it. “They were basically there saying that we’re not going to tolerate this kind of a group in our area,” Martin said.

At one point, someone in the crowd threw eggs and rocks at the Nazis and their police escort. Horse-mounted cops then charged into the ranks of the counter-demonstrators and pulled out a scapegoat.

At the same time, the Nazis turned around and moved quickly in the opposite direction. Police Chief Mike Navarre later admitted that he had decided to cancel the Nazi march “due to the large number of protesters.”

But antiracist demonstrators weren’t informed of the cancellation, so hundreds of protesters ran towards Mulberry Street where they expected the racist creeps to be marching. Instead, they were met by a wall of riot cops, ready for action.

Anger at the police attack on people who came out to send an antiracist message continued to build through the afternoon, leading to more confrontations, and then rioting.

Ford tried to blame the clashes on gangs. But anyone who was there could see that the counterprotesters were a multiracial crowd of men and women, young and old.

For their part, the Nazis denounced left-wing groups, including the International Socialist Organization, who supposedly showed up and “handed out eggs to African American residents,” according to an allegation in one news report. Ford actually went along with this, telling CNN, “Based on the intelligence we received, that’s exactly what they do--they come into town and get people riled up.”

But the residents of the neighborhood where the Nazis rallied didn’t need anyone to “rile them up.” The Nazis’ appearance stoked their anger--and, as resident Washington Muhammad pointed out, the city’s decision to spend $100,000 to provide security for 15 Nazis. “Everybody else does without a police escort,” said Muhammad. “The Nazis should have had a banner behind them that said, ‘Sponsored by the City of Toledo.’”

Activists are planning a response to protest the police crackdown against anti-Nazi demonstrators, and to make sure that the truth is told about what happened--that on October 15, Toledo residents said no to racist hate."
11 May 2006
This is from the Revolutionary Workers Party, about the "Stop The Klan" demonstration in NYC in '99.

"While many on the left cheered the big October 23 [1999] demonstration against the Ku Klux Klan in New York as an unqualified triumph, we say: tell no lies, claim no easy victories.

On the positive side, it was a militant interracial mobilization of 8,000 to 10,000 people united against a common enemy for the first time in many years. The protestors showed widespread disrespect for Democratic Party politicians who tried to keep them pacified throughout. Several anti-Klan fighters managed to land a few blows against one Klan leader. And only a pathetic group of 16 or 17 KKKers showed up. But the fact that these advocates of racist terror were not driven from the streets and given a beating -- in a city with a huge number of Black and Latino workers -- means that the anti-Klan victory was at best minimal.

The huge mobilization of police to protect the Klan was the most obvious reason why the Klan was not dealt a smashing blow. But the police could never have succeeded in saving the KKKers' skins were it not for the passive and divisive role played by the liberal Democratic politicians, as well as that of the sectarian and opportunist groups on the left. Had the major trade unions and the Black and Latino organizations mobilized to run the Klan out of town, the result could have been far different. Even though a few prominent Black and union leaders talked big beforehand, organizations like the NAACP and the Nation of Islam did nothing. Thus the opportunity for a far stronger mobilization against the Klan was missed.

It also must not be overlooked that the Klan rally was kept so quiet and tiny by the actions of New York's racist Mayor Giuliani, who succeeded in obtaining injunctions that prevented the Klan's use of a sound system and hoods. Since the Klansmen couldn't hide their faces, only a handful turned up. If the anti-Klan protesters had faced a hundred KKKers blaring their amplified racist crap and still been prevented from breaking up their rally, then the anti-Klan side could not have claimed any victory at all.

Nevertheless, Giuliani's injunctions were not in the interest of those who wanted to fight the Klan. Bans on marches and masks will be used much more heavily against the working class and oppressed people. The working-class answer is mass mobilization to smash the Klan.

Democratic Party Pols Push "Free Speech"
Giuliani's moves to ban the Klan immediately opened a division between those who said they want to stop the Klan and liberals who think the Klan have a legitimate right to spread their murderous message. The Partisan Defense Committee (PDC), a front group of the Spartacist League, announced their intention to hold a counter-demonstration under the banner "Stop the KKK!" We in the League for the Revolutionary Party joined with many others in endorsing this call. An LRP supporter introduced a motion for union support in the Guild Delegate Assembly of the 1199 Hospital Workers Union, and the motion passed unanimously. But this broad working-class sentiment was betrayed by union head Dennis Rivera, who didn't lift a finger to mobilize anyone.

Meanwhile, the liberals chose to oppose Giuliani by defending the KKK's First Amendment right to free speech -- ignoring the reality that Ku Klux Klan rallies are not about speech but about organizing for racist terror. Under the rubric of the Ad-hoc Citywide Coalition to Stop the Klan, various Democratic politicians, along with the Latino Officers Association, called for a mass protest to drown out the Klan with noise but not actually stop their rally. The most influential figure involved was former mayoral candidate Rev. Al Sharpton, accompanied by lesser-known people like State Assemblyman Scott Stringer.

The liberals' method of building for their rally undermined the potential power of mass protest at every turn. Challenging Giuliani's ban, the New York Civil Liberties Union, Sharpton's National Action Network and the Black newspaper, the Amsterdam News, petitioned in court in defense of the KKK's "right." As we warned in our leaflet:

You better believe that bans will be used far more against Blacks and the working class than against right-wingers. But arguing for the Klan's "right" to march is also bogus.... You can bet the KKK won't be attacked the way the Million Youth March was in 1998, for example. You can also bet the cops won't crack the heads of the KKK the way they do whenever a working class demonstration or strike gets "out of hand."
The liberals also called for massive police protection for the Klan rather than for mass action to stop them.

Against the liberals, we argued that a life-and-death issue was at stake: an open street demonstration by the KKK is a call for racist terror. The working class has to prevent such rallies from happening. Our leaflet said:

The Klan has chosen New York as their rally site exactly to test their strength in a city which is home to a large population of Blacks, Latinos, and immigrants, and a powerful working class at large. If they can pull off a rally here, imagine what they'll think they can get away with elsewhere.... The Klan and associated groups are getting stronger in such states as Pennsylvania and Indiana -- as well as their traditional Southern stronghold. We can't let them get any stronger anywhere. Combating the Klan, preventing them from spreading their message, and thereby also demoralizing their current members is possible -- but only through militant action.
The question was not whether the Klan was popular in New York City. It isn't, although there is support for it -- especially among cops, prison guards and other bastions of reaction. But if the Klan could get away with rallying here, that would help them win recruits and act more boldly elsewhere. It was no accident that a number of people we spoke to at the rally recounted experiences that their families had been through, not so long ago, with the Klan down South."
Re: Nazis In Germany...
11 May 2006
Around the world the Police ALWAYS go the extra mile to protect their "mad dogs" the fascistws. About Germany, from the World Socialist Web Site.....

"Around 3,000 supporters of the neo-fascist NPD (German National Party) marched through the middle of Berlin on Saturday, protected by a force of 4,000 police.

The NPD demonstration was organised to protest against the exhibition: The War of Extermination: Crimes of the Wehrmacht 1941-44. The exhibition, which opened last week in Berlin, documents the role played by the Wehrmacht, or German Army, in Nazi war crimes, and makes clear that many wartime atrocities were not exclusively the work of the fascist Schutzstaffel (SS) units, but also involved regular Wehrmacht units.

Since re-opening two years ago the exhibition has been visited by hundreds of thousands. At the same time, it has been the target for numerous provocations by conservative and extreme rightwing political parties, as well as invoking floods of invective from individual politicians ranging across the political spectrum.

Saturday’s NPD march was authorised by the Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Körting, a member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD). The NPD had announced their intention of marching through the middle of Berlin and, in particular, through the Scheunenviertel, Berlin’s traditional Jewish centre.

Thousands of anti-fascist demonstrators, as well as members of Berlin’s Jewish community, gathered in front of the city’s central synagogue in the Oranienburgerstrasse to protest the provocative neo-Nazi march on the Shabbat, the traditional Jewish day of prayer.

After the demonstration had taken place, Körting admitted that he had, in fact, organised a secret route for the neo-Fascists some weeks ago.

Thus on Saturday, in keeping with this secret deal made with Körting, the neo-Nazis did not march directly through the Scheunenviertel, but were allowed to demonstrate barely a mile away along the city’s Chauseestrasse and Nordbahnhof.

The Nazis carried banners defending the role of the Wehrmacht in the Second World War and chanted nationalist slogans. Some slogans were aimed directly against the organiser of the Wehrmacht exhibition, Jan Philipp Reemtsma.

At the same time, over 1,300 Berliners visited the Crimes of the Wehrmacht exhibition on Saturday to express their own solidarity with its organisers and protest the Nazi march. Many, however, claimed they had considerable difficulty reaching the exhibition because police had blockaded streets and railway stations throughout the city centre.

The huge contingent of police kept the neo-Nazis and anti-fascist counter-demonstrators apart. However, under the impression that the NPD would be marching directly through the Jewish quarter, a large number of demonstrators gathered in front of the central synagogue.

After some stones were thrown towards the massed ranks of police and a handful of protestors tried to push through police barricades, the police responded with a brutal assault, spraying the demonstrators—including many peaceful Jewish protesters, elderly people and young families—with water-cannon and tear gas.

Representatives from the Jewish community and some local politicians attempted to intervene and restore order. Prominent Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) member Gregor Gysi called for a de-escalation of the situation. Speaking through a police megaphone, Gysi defended the police, complaining, “The police are being forced to bear the brunt of politically unresolved problems.” Thirteen anti-fascist demonstrators were arrested in the course of the fray.

As is usually the case with such neo-Nazi demonstrations, the right wing German press, the Berlin interior minister and other prominent politicians blamed left-wing and anarchist demonstrators for the violence. In fact the principle source for the heightened tensions on the day of the march was the Berlin Interior Ministry, which refused to make public its secret deal agreeing an alternative route for the fascist march.

It is also well known that the Berlin police regularly use agent provocateurs that mingle with the demonstrators in order to provoke confrontations and create conditions where the police can crack down violently.

At the same time, there is an element of ritual in the neo-Nazis’ protests and demonstrations against the Wehrmacht exhibition. They are well aware that their own attempts to whitewash the crimes committed by the German army in the Second World War find a profound resonance in the German political establishment A number of leading politicians—from rightwing Christian Democrat Alfred Dregger, to former vice-chairman of the Free Democratic Party and ex- Wehrmacht officer Erich Mende, as well as former SPD Chancellor Helmut Schmidt—have spoken out in defence of the “besmirched honour of the Wehrmacht”.

The current SPD defence minister and his Christian Democratic predecessor have banned members of Germany’s conscript army from participating in “events taking place within the framework of the exhibition”. Capitulating to sustained opposition by politicians and rightwing historians, Jan Philipp Reemtsma consented to close the original exhibition and sacked the historian who had developed it.

What is currently being shown in Berlin is a re-worked and weaker version of the original exhibition. (For an article dealing with the controversial shutting down of the 1995 exhibition see: “The debate in Germany over the crimes of Hitler’s Wehrmacht”

Following the latest clashes in Berlin, renewed calls have been made for the banning of the NPD which is currently under investigation in Germany as an “anti-constitutional” organisation. The events in Berlin on Saturday confirm, however, that the problem of neo-Nazism goes much further than the activities of a number of ultra-right parties currently active in Germany, and in fact extends to broad layers of the political establishment and the police."
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
"widely accepted Fatality numbers"???

And because they are "widely accepted" it is somehow wrong to point out that they are crap. Talk about fables. What brand of logic is that? Because ignorant people around the world believed the world was flat, better watch out, you might fall off the edge.

Sorry, but beliefs being "widely accepted" being a reason to punish people who contradict "widely accepted" doesn't fly in this society. It may be the norm in communist China. The nail that sticks out must be hammered down. But such an idea that I should be punished for not accpeting "widely accepted" beliefs is allien to us American beings.

Why, just last week a survivor was in my hometown speeking of HER holocaust expieriences. And the news paper did a write up on her speech. She, and her mother and sister went to a camp and her sister got sick. Her sister was sent to the infermery "where many people were never seen from again" (duh, infermery is another name for hospital) but exscaped and snuck back to the speeker's/sister's dorm. She then went on about how the dorm's numbers were too high by 1 and how nazis threatened to kill all the people in the dorm if the extra person was not turned over.

Does that make her, a survivor who now gives speeches, a holocaust denier because she trashed the "widely accepted" holocaust allegations. Instead of being instantly killed as is "widely accepted", the nazis sent her to an infermery that she was able to escape from and return to her dorm. Needless to say, NOONE at her speech caught onto to her challenge to "widely accepted" beliefs. Doesn't she relalize that she is challenging "widely accepted" beliefs/propaganda/lies??? Does she realize that her audience is too brainwashed to notice such a contradiction of "widely accepted" beliefs.
Re: Stop Nazis AGAIN!
11 May 2006
In the UK the cops help the fascists. This is from "The Militant"

"Youth resist attacks by cops and rightists against Asians in UK

LONDON--Young people in the towns of Burnley and Bradford have taken to the streets in recent weeks to defend their communities and protest assaults by cops and ultrarightist thugs.
About 1,000 youth set up barricades in the streets and defended themselves from an attack by cops in the Manningham area of Bradford after supporters of the National Front, a fascist organization, had begun chanting racist abuse at Asians participating in an Anti-Nazi League rally.

During the night the police summoned 425 additional cops from neighboring units to reinforce the 500 local cops on the scene, who were having a difficult time cracking down on the protesters. A BBC news bulletin reported that cops "regularly charged the crowd with shields and batons but were forced to retreat repeatedly as the crowd surged forward." Some 120 cops were reportedly injured during the street battle.

Two weeks before the events in Bradford, young people in Burnley fought back against racist assaults by right-wing forces. This followed an assault on an Asian taxi driver by a thug who struck him with a hammer, fracturing his cheekbone. In the week since then, taxi drivers in Burnley have organized a strike to protest the destruction of their vehicles by rightists. The strike action has spread to nearby Nelson and Rawtenstall.

"It's about police brutality," explained R. Mohammed, a resident of the Stoneyholme area of Burnley, describing how cops set up local Asians in the Burnleywood area for assault by rightist thugs. Speaking to Militant reporters just days after the assaults, he described how the cops had escorted a group of 100 racists from the predominantly Asian area of Stoneyholme to the largely white area of Burnleywood. The cops had then drawn away to allow the racists to launch attacks on the few Asian properties that were nearby.

The home and shop that belonged to Mohammed and Rashda Sarfraz was one of those that were set on fire. "I spent half an hour calling the police while my house was besieged by a crowd of 60 people, who eventually burnt it down," Mohammed Sarfraz explained. "My wife, my children, and myself were only able to escape when eight of our friends, who happen to be white, came to help."

Rashda Sarfraz broke her leg as she tried to leave the home. "The local newspaper, the Burnley Express, printed a photo of my burnt-out house, but reporters would not come to interview my family so that we could tell our story," Sarfraz commented. "But we have received messages of support from staff and children at my daughters school, which is attended by pupils who are mostly white. Customers at my shop have also sent flowers and messages of support. I would like to see those responsible for this attack punished."

The cops have not only set up Asians for assaults by the rightists, but they have tried to punish those who act to prevent racist attacks. "The police have arrested Asians who had prevented two men from entering a local mosque because they believed the men were likely to carry out attacks on those coming into the mosque," reported Masaka Ali, a Stoneyholme resident.

These arrests and other steps by the cops have not deterred young people in the area from mobilizing to defend their communities. According to other Stoneyholme residents who did not wish to be named, youth organized street patrols to protect the predominantly Asian area from further attacks during several nights in the week following the weekend assaults.

Blair violence-baits protesters
In response to the events in Bradford, Prime Minister Anthony Blair tarred those who stood up to the police as "thugs." He indicated that the government was considering giving the cops powers to use water cannon in future conflicts. Bradford member of Parliament Marsha Singh argued for such measures, declaring that "the police have got to have the equipment and the resources to clear the streets."

Reflecting growing divisions within the Labour Party administration, former Labour deputy leader Roy Hattersley said the suggested use of water cannon would be "absolutely disastrous."

The previous week, Home Secretary David Blunkett had attempted to ban all demonstrations. Using the 1986 Public Order Act, he granted the West Yorkshire Police powers to prevent public events that were scheduled to held by a range of organizations, from the fascist National Front to the Anti- Nazi League and the Trades Union Congress. Police have arrested 36 people in Bradford, two-thirds of whom are Asian.

Paul Davies is a member of the Transport and General Workers' Union in London. "
Immune to Kryptonite and to the Truth
11 May 2006
All those survivors are almost all gone Troll. Pretty soon you can say there aren't any witnesses. After all, the story that tens of millions who died in Stalin's camps was a fabrication too, right? Hitler just wanted to put a scare in the Jews. All those documents carefully allegedly kept by the Nazis, just more Mossad fabrications. (Those zionists are everywhere, right troll. You dream about them, nibbling at your neck during your dark dreams).

You create your own history. The true Superman.
Re: Nazis Out!
11 May 2006
I don't agree with most Maoist political thought, but this is another example of the Capitalist State backing the Fascists. Note the pattern: around the world every Capitalist government protects the fascists.

"Canning the Klan"
in the Twin Cities

"Our flying squad came to Minneapolis-St. Paul to take the Draft Programme out to an anti-Klan rally, "Can the Klan," which was held at the state capitol in St. Paul on August 25th.

As we drove into Minneapolis before the protest, the shimmering towers of downtown gleamed coldly and we talked about how at first glance, this seemed like a very clean, well off, and white city. But our days in the Twin Cities proved that it isn't much different here than any other large American city: while the percent of African Americans in the city is relatively low, almost every police murder over the past 10 years has involved a Black person. Homelessness has doubled since 1990, and rents have doubled in the last three years. A large amount of public housing --and affordable housing--is being torn down. At the same time, many more poor people from Wisconsin are arriving in Minneapolis because Wisconsin's five-year limit on welfare benefits expires in September. All these conditions are downpressing poor white people in the Twin Cities, and are especially harsh on African Americans, Native Americans, Latinos, Somalians, Vietnamese, Hmong people, and others who make up the diverse minority population here.

The anti-Klan rally was the largest protest in the Twin Cities in many years. More than 3,000 protesters drowned out a handful of KKKers and Nazis who were pressed against the top steps of the state capitol. Some 50 State Troopers guarded the fascists, making a fashion statement in uniforms that almost matched the Nazi brownshirts. Sharpshooters perched on top of the capitol building and hundreds of St. Paul police waited in the wings and were deployed nearby, including a SWAT-type unit.

People came to the rally from many sections of the community, including movement groups, anarchist youth, community activists, punk rock musicians, basic Black youth, church groups, Latino teamsters, and Black nationalists. For many people in the crowd, this was their first political protest. One 20-year-old white guy said, "I only live a mile away, and I could hear the Klan from my house. I couldn't sit in my front yard while the Klan was demonstrating, without coming down here to express my disgust." Several people told us that they had decided to come after hearing the politicians and media telling people not to go.

When the Klan made their appearance from inside the capitol building, anti-Klan demonstrators pushed against the metal police barricades and chanted down the KKK, banging on drums and pots and pans. Demonstrators hurled eggs, bread, and fruit at the fascists, an effigy of a Klansman was burned, and a handful of reactionaries who had filtered into the crowd were confronted and chased away. One of them was tossed over the barricade and made it to safety behind the line of troopers, and the chants changed to "Blue by day, white by night," and "Cops and Klan go hand in hand."

The whole battle to have this rally and take on the Klan raised some deep questions. As the squad went among the people at the rally, we had many deep conversations about sections of the Draft Programme on what it will take to end white supremacy. People wrangled with why, here in the 21st century, the KKK and Nazis think they can come out and rally. In May the Ku Klux Klan from Mercer, WI, the National Socialist Movement based in St. Paul, and the Aryan Nations from California publicized a plan to organize in the five "whitest" states in the country, with Minnesota as one of their target states. The reactionaries opened their "campaign" here, in spite of the fact that the anti-white-supremacist movement has been active in Minneapolis, and Minnesota as a state has a more liberal reputation than Idaho, for example.

As soon as the activists heard about the KKK plan, they said "people from the community started calling us, asking if we were going to do something to stop the Klan from achieving its ends. A couple of us from the radical community come from the South, and even though this was the Klan's first major appearance in Minneapolis, we knew what we needed to do." They launched "Can the Klan" (CTK), which brought together members of groups such as Communities United Against Police Brutality (affiliated with the October 22nd National Day of Protest), anarchist youth from the punk scene, community organizers, welfare rights activists, and others. The youth group Radical Offensive Against Racism (ROAR) held a punk rock/hip hop concert the night before the rally, and the radical youth contributed to the protest's "edge" by attempting to get right in the face of the Klan.

Another sharp lesson from this protest was that the hand that is holding the leash of the KKK belongs to the capitalist system. Almost as soon as CTK formed up, it came under attack from the government, including agents from the US Department of Justice (DoJ), the state troopers who were the police agency responsible for the capitol grounds, politicians, and media commentators. The Klan was granted a permit months earlier, but CTK did not get the final permit until less than a week before the rally.

A Latino union organizer explained why he came to the rally: "For me, it's a moral question. If it's bad for humanity, I have to do it. It's a way to unite the community. It'll deliver a message and bring people together. The Klan represents the powers in this country. If we, as a people's political group, were to have such a rally, the police would give us no protection, but they gave it to the Klan. That indicates to me that the power is closer to the Klan."

The state told CTK representatives that they would be held "responsible" for any violence that might occur, and tried to get them to give the police a guarantee and to finger people who were putting up posters for the rally. They tried to prohibit CTK protesters from using microphones and noisemakers, and to force the rally to start one hour after the Klan rally was scheduled to end.

The spokesman for the state troopers said he was "more worried about violence from Can the Klan...than from the Klan." St. Paul Mayor Norm Coleman claimed that protesters would aid the Klan by providing more publicity for the rally, and could "endanger police officers."

During the permit negotiations, the DoJ informed the lawyer for CTK that the leadership of the CTK was under surveillance by local, state, and federal law enforcement, and by the reactionaries. This not-so-veiled threat caused activists to take measures to ensure their own protection, including making sure to travel together and not talk over their phones, and taking measures to protect their families. During the same time, the answering machine for CTK received frequent racist threats.

Politicians, reactionary columnists and media commentators, and many who should have known better in the liberal community tried to persuade people that they should not protest the Klan, and to demonize the CTK for organizing the rally. An activist painted this picture: "About two weeks before the rally, the media pressure became intense--'don't come to protest the Klan, they said; ignore the Klan and they'll go away.' The mayor of St. Paul called for people to come to an ice cream social and avoid those radicals at the rally, and various liberal community organizations sponsored a 'peace' rally the day before, where politicians and others tried one last time to discourage people from coming."

A CTK leader stressed that throughout this permit battle CTK remained firm and fought for the permit so that the rally could "bring out the broadest, most diverse group of people from our community to show the Klan and other white supremacists that they're not welcome here." Activists agonized over how to hold the unity of CTK in the face of all these attacks. We had a dialogue about how difficult it is--yet how necessary--to "keep it broad but keep the edge"--to unleash the youth and strengthen the anti-capitalist edge of the protest, while not rupturing the unity with the broader middle class forces.

Not surprisingly, news coverage of the CTK rally was sparse to none. A Black man who came with 100 people from his church described the TV coverage: "They said on the news that you couldn't hear the Klan speech over the roar of the protesters, then they made sure to air sound bites from it! I was really shocked to hear, for the first time in Minneapolis, the 'n' word used on TV. The media had a responsibility to cover this--and instead they offended us all and hardly had anything from the anti-Klan side."

The free publicity for the Klan dovetailed with an increase in hate attacks in the area. On August 19 a white man approached four Black teens, poured flammable liquid on one teenager, and ignited it, sending the youth to the hospital. The police refused to treat this as a hate crime because the man (who is still at large) had not used any racial epithets in the attack. Right after the rally on August 25, two white reactionaries who had been at the Klan rally attacked a 4-year-old Black boy. They pushed him off his bike, yelled racial slurs, and punched the little boy in the head! Only one of the men was arrested so far. And on August 26, the bodies of two men were found in or near the Mississippi River. The mainstream media has not identified their race.

It is significant that the reactionaries were hit with powerful resistance to their effort to get a foothold in the Twin Cities. The cooperation of the three fascist groups is new here: a CTK spokeswoman pointed out that "In the past these groups have not normally worked together. They've competed for the same members and there's been some elements of infighting. The fact that these groups are working together now is a sign of how very serious they are about taking root in our community and a sign of how seriously we need to take it and how much we need to work to stop them."

In the wake of the rally, questions percolated among the activists about how to go forward and build a movement of resistance against all these attacks--the struggle against reactionaries, police brutality, the war on the poor, and the struggle to free Mumia."
11 May 2006
From something called “Youth For International Socialism” Trotsky on Fascism

"The fascist movement in Italy was a spontaneous movement of large masses with new leaders from the rank and file. It is a plebeian movement in origin, directed and financed by big capitalist powers. It issued forth from the petty bourgeoisie, the lumpen proletariat, and even to a certain extent from the proletarian masses; Mussolini, a former socialist, is a "self-made" man arising from this movement.

The movement in Germany is most analogous to the Italian. It is a mass movement, with its leaders employing a great deal of socialist demagogy. This is necessary for the creation of the mass movement.

"The genuine basis [for fascism] is the petty bourgeoisie. In Italy it has a very large base - the petty bourgeoisie of the towns and cities, and the peasantry. In Germany, likewise, there is a large base for fascism."

The working class in Italy could have carried a revolution in the period 1918-20. This culminated in the occupation of the factories in September 1920. The Socialist Party was growing rapidly. In two years the union had increased their membership ten times over. In the south a mass movement was developing among the peasants.

Power was there for the taking. But the Socialist Party leadership had a different perspective. They saw the next stage of development of society as bourgeois. Their perspective was that of the bourgeois democratic revolution, along the same lines as the Mensheviks in Russia. Unfortunately in Italy there was no Bolshevik party to lead the workers to power.

The revolutionary upswing was followed by defeat. However the underlying economic crisis that had provoked this movement had not been resolved. The petty bourgeoisie, of the cities and the countryside, was particularly hit and was looking for drastic measures to solve the crisis.

It was on this basis that fascism developed as a mass phenomenon. It also fitted in to the needs of the bourgeoisie, which required a battering ram with which to smash the organizations of the working class, to atomize them. Precisely because fascism was a mass phenomenon it was able to gradually root out every form of independent class organization.

The offices of the Trade Unions, of the Communist and Socialist parties, the headquarters of the co-operative movement, the journals of the left, were all attacked, burnt down and destroyed by squads organized by the fascists. The victory of Mussolini represented the total annihilation of the Italian labor movement. The Italian working was to take another twenty years before it recovered from such a disastrous defeat.

Trotsky explained that fascism emerges as a force when capitalism enters a severe crisis, when it can no longer govern on the basis of granting reforms and thus stabilize society. It emerges when the ruling class needs to smash the organizations of the working class.

But precisely because the ruling class itself is too small a social base with which to hold down the workers it needs to mobilize the petty bourgeoisie which has been driven crazy by the crisis of capitalism itself.

The masses of the petty bourgeoisie (together with the lumpenproletariat and even some of the more backward layers of the workers) thus provide an army of spies and collaborators, present in every street, every block, every factory, with which to control and hold down the working class.

Trotsky explained that it is not possible to hold down the working class for long simply by using the forces of the military police state apparatus. Thus what we saw in Germany and Italy was the bourgeoisie using the fascists to smash the labor movement.

But it paid a price for this, it lost immediate political power in handing it over to demagogues such as Hitler and Mussolini, who based themselves precisely on this frenzied petty bourgeoisie.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
Witnesses to what? There are witnesses to atrocities comparable to atrocities Zionists commit (still) against Palestinians, and atrocities Coalition forces commit against iraqis. A jew doesn't want to get on the truck and runs. A Nazi freaks out and guns him down. That is like ZIonists who shoot kids for going into areas ZIonists told them not to go or when an iraqi car doesn't go where that english speeking guy tells him to go aso they fire a couple hundred bullets into a car killing a whole family.

Yes, we have seen the witnesses of nazi atrocities that are comparable to atrocities of Zionist crusaders and coalition forces. But nothing of death camps or 6 million Jews being killed. Just like we haven't seen any evidence of the 6 million jews ZIonists claimed the Keiser's germany killed in world war 1.

Zionists use the as yet vacant allegations of holocaust to solicite support for thier bloodsoaked war of conquest against palestinians. If there were any evidence at all, we would surely have seen it by now. And "widely accepted" opinions of the ignorant doesn't count as evidence even if you would use it to try to gwet people punished. Ohhh, I failed to bow down to your idols. Cast me into the lions den. that will make you feel better about your propaganda being so void of substance. Wont it?
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
But what about all the good things fascists have done? Mussulini got the trains running on time in Italy, and Hitler, not only was he a vegan, but he also figured out that smoking was bad for you.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
11 May 2006
Don't forget to thank ZIonist crusaders for INTEL inside or for voting with the US at the UN. But don't think that gives Zionists a birthright of murderous theft of palestinian lands eithwer. Or that it makes Democrap and Republitrash support for the Zionist's offensive war of conqeust against Palestinians anything other than an offense.
Re: Nazis Lost Big Time...
11 May 2006
"The coming to power of Mussolini and Hitler solved the immediate problem of the Capitalists, that of smashing the organisations of the working class. But, they paid a price for this.

They lost political power. At a certain point these dictators tended to carry out their own agenda in line with their own interests. These dictators tended to want to hold on to power at all costs and in doing so often carried out decisions against the overall interests of the capitalists.

The fact that a fascist movement in power tends to alienate the petit bourgeois social base creates it own dynamics. It is forced to divert the attention of the masses by creating mass hysteria against alleged "enemies of the people" by engaging in the most atrocious actions.

A clear example is Hitler. It would have been in the interests of German capitalism to have surrendered earlier to the Western allies during the Second World war.

By doing so they may have avoided the Red Army marching into the heart of Germany itself! But Hitler could not surrender. He knew the fate that would await him if he did. So he fought on to the end, leading to a major disaster for the German Capitalists. "
Troll Europe
12 May 2006
I am beginnning a travel fund for Troll to visit Germany and Austria. It is important that the much maligned ciitzens of those nations learn of the myth that millions died in the Holocaust. Troll will have an opportunity to inform the citizens that they are deluded that their grandparents killed more than a few Jews trying to escape, or merely buried a few bodies of folks who caught pneumonia under difficult wartime condiitons.

Troll may find that he will really have a chance to learn about German and Austrian hospitaltiy once he delivers his fact filled message to the local press. And we will have a friend to visit in Europe.@

For a long, long time.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
12 May 2006
German and Austrian rulers are book burners who would cast me into the lion's den for failing to bow to thier idol worship. Who would have thought book burners still rule there? I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it? But Germany and Austria being ruled by book burners isn't evidence of holocaust, it is just evidence that they are ruled by assholes.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
12 May 2006
a total distraction from the issue here--that anti-Nazi demos are used by Zionists to fool people into thinking they have more support and fewer opponents than they do. plus, the real fascists today are not the kkk, they are the Bush Cheney Halliburtons, etc.

Sinking to the level of street thugs only makes leftists look as barbaric as the 2 or three losers who will show up waving swastikas at disgusted passersby. Then they will be disgusted by both the Nazis and the leftist ruffians. If that is what the left needs in America, then count me out of your failed movement that has yet to make a dent or scratch in the war machine. your tactics are so simple and juvenile that if you didn't exist, the real fascists would have to invent you. hmmmmmmm....
Re: Nazis Will Loose AGAIN!
12 May 2006
This is from the Progressive Labor Party, again I don't agree with everything they say, but they have good basic impulses.,%20A

"Anti-Racists Hit Anti-Black, Anti-Latin Minutemen

MUNSTER, INDIANA, March 25 — About 35 black, Latino, Asian and white students and workers from Chicago and Indiana mounted a militant protest against the racist "IFIRE" organization, an Indiana affiliate of the racist, anti-immigrant Minutemen.

IFIRE has been protesting a local bank’s giving loans to all qualified borrowers, which includes immigrant workers without official immigration documents. The anti-racists drew participants from a local Catholic church, students and workers from Chicago, including PLP members, and students from Indiana colleges.

Our militant counter-protest completely neutralized the racists.

Most of the time we circled them with our signs, our chanting drowning out their message, distributing flyers exposing their racism while calling for working-class unity.

A scuffle broke out over a racist sign one of the IFIRE group was waving. He charged into the middle of our group and assaulted an anti-racist. Big mistake! After warning him several times to stop, the scuffle ended with him on the ground and getting treated for "cuts and bruises" by an ambulance crew.

But the importance of our protest goes beyond one racist getting what he deserved. The 35 anti-racists got to see just how racist these anti-immigration groups really are.

IFIRE’s website and literature claim "It’s not about race," but their language was viciously racist against Latino and black working-class people. After the event a local campus group received a threatening e-mail from one of the IFIRE members filled with racism against black people.

It linked to a neo-Nazi website with a cartoon joking about a black man being shot in the head.

The anti-immigrant forces are not "about jobs" but about racism. These groups are allied with hard-core Nazis and use this issue to expand their fascist base.

The biggest Nazis, the liberal super-rich capitalists, will use these groups to attack all workers as their crisis worsens.

In addition, many of our anti-racist protestors — for the first time in their lives — participated in a face-to-face militant protest against fascists. It was an important experience in training our forces for bigger battles to come on the road to communist revolution.

This process is putting theory into practice; it is one of building multi-racial unity, including between black and Latino workers. The capitalist media is working overtime to try to turn us against each other in every possible way.

It is also a process of building trust, of learning to organize and of actually fighting back. The demonstration accomplished all this and strengthened the anti-racist movement and the PLP.

We’re all enthusiastic about organizing similar actions and expanding our movement by bringing a large group to our May Day celebration this month.

We must and will combine long-term base-building, militant action and careful organization to forge a revolutionary communist movement to destroy forever this capitalist system of racism and war."
Re: Put the Nazis On the Run!
12 May 2006
This is from the Spartacist League. They have a long history of Union centered anti-fascist demonstrations. They also come up with slogans that act as "anti-Liberal" repelent that keeps Democrats and religious leftists away.

"Join the Labor Black Leagues!

The first Labor Black Leagues were formed as a result of the Spartacist League-initiated, 5,000-strong labor/black mobilization that stopped the Ku Klux Klan from marching in Washington, D.C. in November 1982. We stand for mobilizing the masses of minority and working people in militant integrated struggle against the brutal system of racist oppression that is capitalist America. Initiated by and fraternally allied with the Spartacist League, a multiracial revolutionary Marxist organization, the Labor Black Leagues are part of the revolutionary movement of the workers and oppressed against the bosses and for socialism.

If You Stand For—

1 Full rights for black people and for everyone else in jobs, housing and schools! Defeat the racist assault on affirmative action! For union-run minority job recruitment and training programs! For union hiring halls! Open up the universities to all—for open admissions, free tuition and a full living stipend for all students. Free, quality, integrated public education for all!

2 A fighting labor movement—picket lines mean don't cross! Defeat police scabherding and strikebreaking through mass pickets and union defense guards! For sit-down strikes against mass layoffs! Fight union-busting; keep the capitalist courts out of the unions! Organize the unorganized, unionize the South! Jobs for all—for a shorter workweek at no loss in pay with full cost-of-living escalator clause! Cops, prison guards and security guards out of the unions!

3 Fight for women's rights! Defend abortion clinics! Free abortion on demand; free, quality 24-hour childcare! Equal pay for equal work! For free, quality health care for all!

4 Full citizenship rights for all immigrants; everyone who made it into this country has the right to stay and live decently! Stop deportations! No to racist "English only" laws! Down with anti-Hispanic, anti-Semitic, anti-Arab and anti-Asian bigotry!

5 Defend the separation of church and state! Full democratic rights for homosexuals! Down with the anti-sex witchhunt—cops and courts out of the bedroom! Down with all laws against consensual activities such as "crimes without victims" like pornography, gambling, drugs and prostitution!

6 Mass labor/black/Hispanic mobilizations drawing on the power of the unions against the racist terrorists. Stop the Nazis! Stop the KKK!

7 Abolish the racist death penalty! Free Mumia Abu-Jamal! Free all victims of racist capitalist repression! No faith in the capitalist courts! No to gun control! Defend victims of cop terror and racist police frame-up! No illusions in civilian review boards or community control of the police! Down with the racist and anti-labor "war on drugs"! For decriminalization of drugs! For class-struggle, non-sectarian legal and social defense; support the work of the Partisan Defense Committee!

8 Unconditional opposition to every attempt to abolish welfare! Down with slave-labor, union-busting "workfare" schemes! Fight any and every attempt of the government to take away or cut back even more social programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public health and aid to education and housing! For a massive program of public works—high-quality integrated housing, schools, libraries, hospitals for the working people and the poor!

9 Down with the chauvinist poison of protectionism! For international working-class solidarity! Support revolutionary struggles of working people abroad! Defend the deformed workers states—Cuba, Vietnam, China and North Korea—against capitalist restoration and imperialist attack! For proletarian political revolution to oust their Stalinist bureaucracies! For labor action against U.S. imperialist war moves and military adventures! For the right of independence for Puerto Rico! U.S. troops out of Puerto Rico and the Caribbean!

10 Down with the Democrats and Republicans! For a revolutionary workers party that champions the cause of all the oppressed! Finish the Civil War! Those who labor must rule! For a workers government to take industry away from its racist, incompetent and corrupt owners! Rebuild America on a socialist planned economy!

—Join the Labor Black Leagues!"
Re: Nazis Lose Cyberbattle
12 May 2006
I have plenty of criticisms of the Workers World Party, they are Stalinists who love Democrats, but they had some interesting things to say about the Nazis online.

"Nazis Lose Cyberbattle
By Gary Wilson
In the cyberwars, the Nazis have come up against mass opposition.

A vote on whether to allow a "white power" music discussion group on USENET ended with 33,000 saying no. Only about 500 voted for the Nazis.

The results were announced at the beginning of June.

"This was not about free speech for Nazis," Paul Kneisel, an organizer of the Vote No Campaign, told Workers World. Nazi hate speech is backed up by murder, terror and genocide. It should be stopped, period.

Kneisel characterized the vote as a "spontaneous outpouring of anti-fascist sentiment." To call the Vote No Campaign organized might, in fact, be an exaggeration. People like Kneisel who oppose the Nazis passed messages to each other across the Internet.

The word got around. From across the United States and around the world, the responses poured in.

In addition to the 33,000 "no" votes, anther 6,000 anti-Nazi votes were disqualified, Kneisel says. These were disqualified for technical reasons--such as saying "death to the Nazis" rather than just registering a simple "no."

Never before in Internet history has there been such a big vote about any USENET news group. And never before has there been such big opposition to any news group.

USENET began in 1979 as a way to have open discussions on the Internet. It is divided into categories based on topics of interest. The three biggest categories--"hierarchies" in USENET terminology--are computer-related issues, called the comp hierarchy; social, called soc; and recreational, rec.

The Nazis had proposed to create a recreational group on "white power" music to be called

There are already several Nazi groups in the alternative-alt--hierarchy. But the alternative news groups aren't automatically carried by all Internet service providers. They can be set up without going through the voting procedure required for "mainstream" USENET groups like "rec."

To establish a group in one of these hierarchies, a proposal must be submitted. The proposal is supposed to explain why the group is needed.

A vote is taken on the proposal. Anyone with an e-mail address on the Internet can vote.

Usually no more than a few hundred people vote, yes or no.

The vote against the Nazis was stunning. But it has not ousted the Nazis from the Internet.

"The battle over `' was whether the group should be formally established on USENET, nothing else," says Kneisel. "The Nazis continue to have their email, their Web pages and mailing lists, and the ability to spout hate-filled speech on the Internet."

A battle was won. But the cyberwar against the Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan and their ilk is not over."
Re: Protest drives Nazis off campus
12 May 2006
Again from Workers World Party.

Protest drives Nazis off campus
Some 200 youths, students, teachers and Buffalo, N.Y., residents held a rally and drove an ultra-right-wing racist and anti-Semitic group off the University of Buffalo's South Campus on Sept. 27. Black, Asian, Latino and white people from all spectrums of life, religion, sexual orientation and gender came out to the rally called by the Buffalo International Action Center. They outnumbered the racists 40 to one.

The racists called themselves the "Racial Nationalist Party of America." Using Nazi-like terminology, their vicious official rally slogan was opposition to "Jew Communism in our schools."

An active police presence protected the Nazi group. Police turned their backs toward the bigots and faced the anti-Nazi protesters.

It is no coincidence that these fascists showed up to promote division at a time when the Arab communities in Buffalo face a government witch hunt and frenzy of anti-Arab propaganda, and when the Black community is under intensified police harassment.

Erie County Executive Joel Giambra had told progressive people to stay home to avoid possible violence. At the rally, the Rev. Darius Pridgen said: "The county executive said we should ignore the Nazis and stay away. We have ignored too much for too long. We came to do the right thing." Pridgen is an African American activist who had earlier led a successful struggle here against racist profiling at a large regional mall.

In the end all five members of the Racial Nationalist Party of America were seen fleeing from the demonstration. Activists and community members had once again booted the bigots out of Buffalo.

--Matthew L. Schwartz"
the left is sort of dependent on fascism too
12 May 2006
liam shows exctly why the left loves a nazi rally. counter protesting the most explicit fascists is a great way to suck people into authoritarian leftist politics. this trotsky stuff, its very cute but what you really mean is that everyone gets that feel good feeling from booing nazis, and then you have a captive audience to sell newspapers and ideology to. right?

oh yeah, and we have a holocaust denier and a right wing troll running loos in here too. moderation kind of really sucks on this imc.
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
12 May 2006
I can see why people get upset about the Nazis. Think about for a second. The Nazi's thought themselves to be so superior and above other races, but they could not prevent the deaths of thousands of Jews from typhoid who were being trained in re-eduaction camps.
Re: Nazis Out!
12 May 2006
Report on Boston Anti-Fascist Demo

The following is a report by an IBTer who participated in an anti-fascist action in Boston, Massachusetts on Sunday 8 May 05.

The demonstration, organized around the old Spanish Civil War slogan "They Shall Not Pass!" was a response to a provocation by local neo-Nazis including White Revolution, the Connecticut White Wolves and Aryan Nation. These scum advertised a "White Unity" weekend in Boston, to coincide with a special Holocaust Commemoration Service for Yom HaShoah.

The commemoration was scheduled to mark not only the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camps but also the 10th anniversary of the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston. Among those invited to take part in the observances inside Faneuil Hall were Holocaust survivors and German diplomats. The Nazis’ declared intent to march on Faneuil Hall during the ceremonies was a provocation that had to be answered.

We arrived at the designated rally site in front of Faneuil Hall, right next to Quincy Market, in the hub of downtown Boston. It was a particularly damp and chilly morning. More than 500 counter-demonstrators had gathered on the cobblestone square outside the hall. They included anarchists, Zionists, and members of various socialist groups.

The demonstration appeared to have been haphazardly organized which may account for the lack of publicity and the absence of some groups.

When we first arrived much of the crowd, including most of the left groups, was marching around the square, while the Zionists and anarchists mostly stood off to the side.

After perhaps an hour a man with a Confederate flag bandana was identified in the crowd. A WWP/IAC leader, with the support of a bunch of anarchists, took the lead in getting rid of him.

Soon after the first fascist sympathizer beat a hasty retreat, a small clot of racist skinheads emerged from the corner of Quincy Market. This time a much larger crowd converged on the fascists but a bunch of cops appeared almost immediately from the direction of Quincy Market and Faneuil Hall to form a tight protective circle around the Nazis.

At this point the police did not seem eager to engage in combat. Before long mounted police rode into the crowd and shepherded the fascists across the street to a McDonalds, where several other Nazi sympathizers were rumored to have been trapped earlier. After the skinheads were extricated in unmarked police cars most of the demonstrators returned to the square.

When look-outs spotted a dozen Nazis with a phalanx of cop protection a block down Court Street, marching toward Congress Street, a cry of "They’re Coming! They’re Coming!" went up and most of the demonstrators stormed up the hill to confront the fascists.

A cluster of about a dozen Nazis marched round the corner, protected by dozens of cops in riot gear. These fascists were rather better organized than their straggling sympathizers we had seen earlier.

Most of them were male skinheads in their 20s, many of whom were thought to be members of the Arkansas-based white supremacist group, White Revolution, whose leader, Bill Roper, had been billed to give a talk on "Who Are The Jews?" the previous day.

Congress Street is a wide street with a raised median dividing the two lanes of traffic. The police had put up crowd control barricades (the shorter kind that look like bicycle racks) along the sidewalks on either side of the street. The median itself had a short wrought iron fence. To confront the fascists it was necessary to jump both the first line of barricades and the median fence.

All the left groups present (chiefly the ISO, WWP and PL) and most of the rest of the demonstrators attempted to get across the street to get at the fascists. In response the cops around the Nazis tightened their line and mounted cops arrived to back them up. The cops attacked the first wave of the anti-fascists and managed to drive the crowd onto the western sidewalk.

One of those clubbed was a 15 year old Jewish high school student from Brookline who was quoted in the Boston Globe the next day. He was bleeding from a blow above one eye, but remained in the demonstration. In the paper the police denied hitting demonstrators, but we clearly observed a cop clubbing a rather elderly Jewish man.

The crowd continued to try to get at the Nazis until, about halfway down the block, in an obviously pre-arranged move, the police barricaded the street with cars they drove out of an underground parking garage.

They then escorted the fascists around the cars and up a cement staircase to the City Hall Plaza, which is on the opposite side of Congress Street from Faneuil Hall. The police had set up a sort of improvised pen for the fascists on the bottom landing of the staircase and surrounded it with barricades.

The Nazis put on a show with an Israeli flag, stepping on it, blowing their noses on it, rubbing it over their crotches, grinding a piece of ham into it etc., while holding aloft crudely anti-Semitic signs like "Six Million Lies!" and "Nuke Israel." The overwhelming number of cops, many in riot gear, others on motorcycles or horses, successfully protected the fascists. PL initiated an appropriate chant: "The Cops, The Courts, The Nazis and The Klan. All are a part of the Bosses’ Plan!" which the crowd failed to pick up. We had no more success with "Cops and Klan Go Hand-In-Hand."

It seemed at one point that the cops were considering trying to disperse the demonstration and there was much revving of motorcycle engines and aggressive riding of horses up and down the street. Most of the militants (along with the news photographers) were on the west side of Congress Street where the fascists were.

The fascist rally went on for a while outside City Hall before they made a carefully choreographed exit through the City Hall Plaza where a waiting police van whisked them away to a nearby MBTA (subway) station.”
Re: Nazis back AGAIN!
20 May 2006
Posting shit from the 'Workers World Party'?

These guys support North Korea, which is-guess what-a FASCIST country!