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News ::
The next presidential "debate"
05 Oct 2000
Join us in Winston-Salem!!!
Everyone's invited to join our protest. The second bullshit CPD "debate" is planned for next Wenesday, October 11th at Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem NC. Please come on down!
For more info see http://www.o11.org
See also:
www.o11.org
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Take it to the streets
05 Oct 2000
"Direct Action" is just a way for one self-appointed group to deny another group that they don't agree with, their rights.

What should the police do about a "nonviolent" group blocking an abortion clinic. To respond in any way would be an escalation, right? So do nothing? Let them close the clinic? How about when the fascists try to non violently close the IMC. If there are more of them, than they win. Is that what democracy looks like? I don’t think so.

Those cops that you berate and dehumanize in the propaganda on this site would be there to protect your rights.

How did the after-the-fact slashing of the tires and breaking of windows of the police cars in Boston effect the moral asendency of the "direct actions" goals. How about the jerks with the masks who were loading up on big rocks to throw at the cops and the horses. Did that put the protesters on higher moral ground?

The "that wasn't me, I can't be held responsible for someone else" cop out doesn't cut it. If you were in the crowd you were part of ALL that.

These “direct action” campaigns that block streets and trash police cars are non democratic, politically ineffective, logically dishonest and just plain ugly.

But for bored rich white kids, it must be great excitement.
misguided reaction
05 Oct 2000
your comments speak of a neoconservative who's impatient for the full implementation of martial law. Since when are the actions of the police beyond reproach? And which action is more repressive: an unempowered individual venting frustration at the enforcers of social control; or the use of police to silence dissent - even to the point of not allowing Nader entry, although he had a ticket? You speak in smokescreens meant to breathe confusion. Anyone who's ever been arbitrarily searched by the police (or otherwise handled like a sack of potatoes by the polizei) will see through your words. And the last time i checked, the only time police did intervene outside abortion clinics was when pro-choice groups started showing up to counter the pickets of abortion opponents.
back to the streets
05 Oct 2000
As you know, the first thing one does to legitimize one’s own morally questionably behavior is to dehumanize the target of that behavior. You assert that I am a ‘neo-conservative; who would enact martial law. No. I am another human with an opinion other than the one you hold. And one whose point you did not address. In your world how would you solve the problem of a bigger group than yours who would take direct action against you? What would you do to ensure that one group of serious minded and committed (like yourselves) direct action abortion protesters did not violate the rights of women? Or any other people?

The real world is a complicated place. Your simple minded adrenaline charged sloganeering solutions are the first step to your feared martial law society. They may be fun and exciting for you, but I would suggest that you do something boring like mentor a poor kid in a crime ridden neighborhood, or how about providing security for a women’s reproductive clinic? No, I guess it's a lot easier to wear a mask and throw a rock at a horse for liberty.
Judge civil disobedience in its context
05 Oct 2000
Well, I just hope that you're not someone who complains about "class warriors" and "reverse racism". Anyway, please tell us your complete story - who did you see throwing a rock at a horse? When and where?

And as for the "cop-out" - you can't blame an entire crowd for what one person allegedly did, unless you feel like arresting everyone at a football game or fourth of July parade because of one violent drunkard. Come to think of it, there used to be a group of people who would punish cop-killings by excecuting enitre towns. They were called the gestapo.

A agree that the cop-hating is stupid, but civil disobedience can be judged in its context - we were not doing the equivalent of shutting down an IMC, we were trying to achieve more free speach and more democracy - not less. Long live the "spiled white suburban kids" who just ousted Milosovich!
another opinion
05 Oct 2000
OK, one more before I go to bed.

My story? I was in the crowd between the police and the water. I intervened when two kids wearing masks went down to the seawall and were pulling big hand sized rocks out of the seawall into napsacks. Another took off up the embankment into the crowd with a full load as I arrived. Later I saw some rocks flying out of the crowd. It’s scary that in this us against them atmosphere nobody in the crowd questioned that behavior. That’s what I call a mob.

You’re right about the football match, but I suggest that one who finds him or herself travelling with large group that arrive with a medical team, gas-masks, coordinators, action councils and many who are wearing masks (long before any teargas potential) to hide their identity, were a bit more culpable in whatever spontaneous violence that might have occurred than a football spectator. I get your point, but the analogy is a stretch.

Civil disobedience is one of the most important tools that a free society has to remain free. That is why all this stylish violence in the name of civil disobedience pisses me off. All these rich kids want to wear masks and play the wild revolutionary. Responsible social activists should be aghast.


about the rocks
05 Oct 2000
the rocks were used to bang against the road divider, much like a drumstick is used on a snare. i did not see one rock fly through the air, though i admit that was a possibility.

but if you want to talk about possibilities, a horse could've trampled scores of non-violent protesters, police could've beat the crap out of innocent kids, ralph nader could have been allowed into the building. there's a lot of stuff that could've happened but didn't.
next time.
06 Oct 2000
Where the fuck do you get off making this statement?

"Civil disobedience is one of the most important tools that a free society has to remain free. That is why all this stylish violence in the name of civil disobedience pisses me off. All these rich kids want to wear masks and play the wild revolutionary. Responsible social activists should be aghast."

Who are you, that you know that who is a "rich white kid" you ignorant fuck?

is this what democracy looks like?
06 Oct 2000
You articulate your position nicely. But it seems that you have a problem with dissent (not to mention anger management.)

I know what I know. I believe it to be true based on what I know and what I’ve seen.

Why does it make you so mad to have someone disagree with you? I do have the right to an opinion. Unless you want to take direct action against my having an opinion.

Is that what democracy looks like?