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News ::
"Hanoi Jane Look Alike Rally (english)
24 Feb 2003
Modified: 03:45:50 PM
Exercise your FREEDOMs( while you still can ).
To:
John Grant
4008 Pilgrim Rd
Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462
610) 832-7028
610) 940-5880

John,

I just sent a post to a list with a topic called The Left & Their Math - how to
pad a score card. If I can find a copy I will forward. Some folks look for
visuals, like the anti-war movement "depends on them", to convince ( psyop) the
general public into a feeling of "being wrong" about their convictions concerning
our nation. Wherefore the unsuspecting become "pawns" for an agenda, bodys on
some line drawn so that an end can be acheived. The end is NOT always whats
potrayed to the unsuspecting, but a hidden agenda to change our way of life and
value system and convert it to some "pure" form of Marxism or Soacialism. A look
around the world shows, historically, these systems are the most oppresive form of

government ("control"), where disent is often doused with long prison terms or
termination of those who "speak out".

Without war, the United States would still be part of the British Empire. Because
we tried to stay out of war, the Japanese cut our throat. Because we were
weak and undecisive, thousands of American soldiers lost their lives in Vietnam.
And this will NOT happen again. You may count a modest 10,000 of those
DUPED into thinking they are fighting a dragon, when in fact the real Dragon was
leading them on to their own downfall and death. FEAR, much like the terrorist
threats aimed at producing an outcome favorable to the terrorist, is a weapon used

by the left and the unsuspecting, like a trout hiting what was perceived by it to be a
real fly, ends up on the hook and some ones meal. WON'T BE FOOLED
AGAIN, my friend. Nor will the TROOPS who make the trip feel
abandoned by their countrymen.

You only see whats on the "surface" when infact there are many in the shadows (
where they should be till needed ) who will stand up and be counted when the time
comes. The numbers you now "flash" to win approval and to "convince" your path
is the only path will become a real number when it hits the fan .. and I don't
personally feel you will have the numbers game as an ally at that point in time.

The weapons of today are not what grandfather or dad used when they liberated
Europe or stormed Pacific islands. Todays weapons are far more dangerous and
many, the size of a brief case, can wipe out a city.

Our enemy is different, born from pure hate, they use our own system against us,
including but not limited to the dupes of the "anti-war" movement. They don't
consider life to be sacred, like we do. Todays enemy is more cunning, well
financed, and supported by many countries that would like to see the United
States destroyed. never march to DISARM sodam, or any other nation.

Do you feel the ANTI WAR MOVEMENT will deter "their" plans to attack here
and even NUKE us if they can? Get a life and a brain. Another thing that shows
the LEFT leads all of the hooah's out on the line is the fact you nor your cronies
never oppose

No marches to end the murder of the innocent by dictators like sodam who
has no respect for any ones life but his own, the snivelling butt faced
puke. HE has killed so many who are doing what you are allowed to do
here in the states, PROTEST. You look at 9/11 and justify their actions
despite the fact they killed many non military, including women and
children. Where is the
STORM of dissent about this action that took more innocent lives than
soldiers on D-Day or December 7th at Pearl Harbor? The greatest
number of deaths on American soil since the Civil War! yet, not soldiers -
civilians, men, women and children.

You just don't get it do ya?

Do you think IF these morons got lucky and killed the US resistance, that once
gone, YOU or any one walking with you would live? I am doing up a website
that should be live soon and it will offer an award, the Moron of The Left award of
the month, and their "sheep". Hell you may be a prime candidtae if you think you
would survive ( mr. infidel ) cause you marched to their drummers drumbeat.

I don't mind steping out and being marked cause I know whats in the shadows.
There is a wave filled with spirit second to none that when needed will appear like
ones worst nightmare...and if I die, I know, out of the shadows will apear another,
who will pry the gun out of my cold dead hand and carry on.

Isn't it nice to have freedom to choose? among many others taken for granted by
a minority thats all puffed up agaist the hands the feeds them many individual rights
coveted by those in other country's who would die make a sojourn here, who
have made the trip, and those who continue to come. We have one of the most
divers populations in the world, co-existing, where an imigrant can come and
create a life, start a business and excell in life, education under the cover of our
Flag.

We are a ntion of all faiths and customs where most would rather build than
destroy. Walk in peace not war, for no one I know likes war, the loss of a loved
one, family members maimed for life, or dieing from an InCountry toxic substance
like AO or GWS.. Many in the USA know what wars about, but also know
despite a distain for war, there are times wars will occur, and will once again rise
up in defense of what we have, despite it's flaws, to preserve, protect and defend
at all cost a history of unification of people from all walks of life that worked for or
sought one thing, FREEDOM. You may not see whats in the shadows as those
who will be there when it counts are like the wind.. Quiet for a minute, a raging
storm the next, a storm that will not easily be calmed.

You have this freedom to choose, and today may be the mose decisive day of
your life.


Joe Oliver
Houston, TX









Subject: "Hanoi Jane Look Alike Rally"
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:49:05 -0500
From: John Grant


Dear Eddie The Lock,
I saw a photo of you at the NYC march. I didn't make it to NY
because we organized a modest march of 10,000 people here in
Philadelphia that day. It is quite debatable who is in the minority
right now. Yes, the TV networks and the polls tend to reflect the
Bush
War Fever -- but your example notwithstanding -- that support
seems
shallow, "a mile wide and an inch deep." Antiwar sentiment is much

more open-minded & better informed and much more deeply
heart-felt. It
is also growing beyond the radical and pacifist mindsets and into the
mainstream. That is borne out when you realistically discuss the war
with normally quite conservative people, which I try to do. Soon
enough
they run out of arguments and they're not too sure it's the smartest
thing to do. If and when the war & the more critical aftermath go
south, those folks will abandon the enterprise like a theater on fire,
leavimg George Bush like LBJ sadly spinning in the wind for the rest
of
his non-political life. All George Bush has going for him is a
faith in the devastating weapons he can unleash -- he has little truth
on his side.
You no doubt disagree -- but I assure you antiwar demonstrators
are
fighting for the heart & soul and best interests of America. This war
is a disaster in the making. And, c'mon, give poor Jane a rest; I
hear she's now a born again Christian like George Bush, both of
whom
acted without honor during the Viet Nam War.
Best,
John Grant
Veterans For Peace
See also:
http://www.soft-vision.net/ao_vets
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TYPICAL CONFORMIST-MEDIA PROGRAMMED MIND (english)
24 Feb 2003
I probably am playing into the Government Conformist faction's plan to disrupt this Indymedia site by turning the news and political premise newswire into a field for trivial debate. But I am going to refute his gov line propaganda at least once...........

The writer of the rehashed government opinion above -Which You Will Find On Nearly EVERY [government aligning] mainstream news outlet TV Radio etc - Feels that he needs to tell us all AGAIN, Exactly what the Ditto Heads, Ari Fleischer, NPR, the Times, Donaldo [ el caudillo ] Rumsfield and all of the government-line conforming US media has tried to get us to believe over the last two years.

The US media LIED about the Non-existant 'facts' bringing the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that escalated the Vietnam War. The US Media that the above writer slavishly repeats, LIED about the CIA funded overthrow of the legally elected Salvatore Allende government in Chile. The US Media LIED about the CIA and MOSSAD Funded and assist overthrow of the legally elected Mohammed Mossadehg in IRAN - which they orchestrated to Impose upon Iran the Dictator the 'SHAH' of Iran [Who was actually only a right-wing army colonel who had the CIA find a distant link in his ancestory to the old monarchy of Iran.) The US MEDIA LIED about the US Airforce planes being used in the overthrow of the legally elected Arbenz government in Guatemala putting in OUR torturing dicator Armas. Put any of the stuff into GOOGLE and see if it is not ALL the Truth. Try SAVAK (Iranian secret police under the Shah) and CIA together and see what comes up. They LIED about the numbers of the Dead on both sides in Vietnam.

And so this guy now above Repeats the US MEDIA line and imagines that he is telling somebody something.

OK - then WHERE to WE get OUR information ?? Is it any better than his? IT DAMN SURE IS. We get our information from on the spot EYE-WITNESSES who aren't being paid a dime to help get the information out - Most these Indymedia people do most of what they do for us - at a $ LOSS to themselves. Much of Indymedia is funded by the amateurs and also the professionals who care enough about truth and humanity to do it for very little or for free. I think the BEST USED DONATION in the world for the Good of the World may be the Donation that goes to Indymedia people.

WE also get OUR information from Many non US gov sources - Such as the highly respected British newspapers the GUARDIAN and the INDEPENDENT. These are great papers with a dedication to true reporting Read Robert Fisk at the Independent. We also get our info from the BBC (which you would think would report the same trash as the Bush Media does, because of Blair) - We get our Information from the German papers and from German Indymedia and from the Belgian papers. Of course the 'above article writer' would say that ALL these country's papers and Indymedia reports are lying because they have in his word's 'an agenda'.

Well YES - they do have an agenda. And the agenda is truth. The game of the right=wing disinformation guys is over. They have been exposed too many times

The US Media still LIES about the NUMBERS at Anti-War Demonstrations (Amy Goodman -of one of the VERY few honest news programs in the US "DEMOCRACY NOW) at a talk at the University Southern Maine told how she called the TIMES when they reported the NYC demonstration as in the tens of thousands - when actually it was in the HUNDREDS of Thousands. She confronted them with the police and European news agency reports. The TIMES said it was a 'differnce in perspective'.

Same with our guy above here. He has 'difference in perspective'. He SAYS and I QUOTE:

"Some folks look for visuals, like the anti-war movement "depends on them", to convince ( psyop) the
general public into a feeling of "being wrong" about their convictions concerning our nation. Wherefore the unsuspecting become "pawns" for an agenda, ....."

Would it help to tell him the truth - that the 'General Public' already has decided that the War 'convictions' of 'our nation' [{he says 'our nation' when the National Majority has Anti Iraq War convictions - and it is only the political Oligarchy in power and FEW ditto heads like him who believe that their is any national conviction to go to War with Iraq}] - or that This Destruction of Our Bill of Rights doesn't 'protect us'? What this man is supporting is Repressions by a few in government to make this country a POLICE STATE for the sake of 'Safety'. His article has my contempt.