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News ::
A Call To Arms
10 Oct 2000
Modified: 02 Oct 2001
A call to arms in support of Palestine
I ask all Arabs and Palestinian sympathizers in Boston and Massachusetts who understand the suffering of the Palestinian people to blockade all Israeli installations in Massachusetts. Israel, the same nation who claimed to be victims of fascist brutality during World War II are themselves fascist. I call on all Islamic nations to mobilise for a jihad against Israel
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Rediculous
10 Oct 2000
Because someone does somethng wrong, illegal or insensitive...you call for an escalation? Sure, that makes lots of sense, doesn't it.
U.S. Pacifists Speak with Privilege...
10 Oct 2000
Sometimes the arrogance of pacifist privilege in this country is enough to make you sick. I assume the author of the above comment does not reside in occupied Palestine, so how can they confidently speak with such self-righteousness in attempting to impose their tactical choices on those in struggle.

It is abundantly clear who the aggressors are in this situation (the Isreali State, and right-wing Zionist chauvenists and progromists), and where solidarity needs to be directed (the Palestinian people in struggle). So how about saving the pacifist preaching for the college political clubs...
Death and Killing, is it really the answere.?
10 Oct 2000
Death and killing, what a solution. Shouldn't the concentration be on those who are living.?

Borders are a ridiculus way of saying "I'm too GREEDY to share.".!!!!!!!

Sure buddy, get your land back.... and then what.?

You still have to find a way to live.

I was born on "Un-seated" native land in Canada. So were exactly should I live, if I was born on stolden land.?

Am I to die because I/we don't belong here.?

Would my death really help natives feed their family.?

I've been told by a Native Elder that we have to learn to work together and respect mother earth.

So...... roting corpes are NOT good for the enviroment.

Only arms salesmen win those kind of battles.

Stop calling for death and obay the word of god.

Educate the ignorant. and love as your God loves you.

Ps. (sorry for the rant but guns only make people rich.)

if you feed your enamies, put clothes on their children, and treat them as a beloved relitive, chances are their'll do the same for you.

Haven't you figured out by now, that picking fights will only get you into a fight.
See also:
http:\\cfuv.uvic.ca
You are justifying the evils in Palestine
10 Oct 2000
In response to Ken who justifies the murder of children simply because they are Palestinian. I am sure that if they were Israeli children you would be shouting "palestinian terrorists". All I am advocating is fair play. Do you think it is fair that the Israelis use helicopter gunships to blow Palestinian houses away? The Palestinians in the most part are not armed even with guns. The bully in the sand pit always gets a rude shock when someone fights back. Provocation and violence beget violence
You can't stay apart
11 Oct 2000
What I would like to say is the "pacifist way" is just not an option. Like the great French philoposopher Jean-Paul Sartre said: "On ne peut pas rester à l'écart"(You can't stay apart). When there is an armed oppression of a nation, you have to choose: you are with the oppressors, or with the oppressed. If you choose the camp of the oppressed, you have to repect their self-organisation. They have to decided if the conditions for an armed struggle are fulfilled. But, believe me, you ain't gonna end oppression by praying to your god!

See also:
http://go.to/sjw
the other side
12 Oct 2000
There is a war in israel, and terrible things happen. I am considered a very extreme pro arabs person, but it's hard for me to see them kill my friends and still support them. I know that the israeli policy wasn't good, that's why i was against it. I refused joining the army (after a long strugle i secceeded), and i voted for an arab group on the elections. I am active in human rights orgs and i go to protests to support the peace process.
Lately i really felt there was a change in the general way of thinking among the israelis. They were tired of wars, and most of them were willing to give up even east Jerusalem. but all that violence that increased after Arafat set free all the "Hamas" terrorists, sent us back to where we started. Now, there are israelis that are looking for revange. I can understand it, although I'm against it.
Today i saw on the italian tv how hundrends of palestinians abused 2 soldgiers that came to an arab city by mistake, and i couldn't stop crying. Are those the people i'm fighting for?
They burned their bodies, and now they are having big parties on the streets, while we are crying.
These days, our soldgiers were full of patience. They are only kids, 18 - 21 years old men and women, that don't enjoy killing. Arabs are throwing stones at them, shoot them - but they react with shooting only when their life are in real danger. They don't want to be there, they are forced to do that. The bombs that were throwen by the air forces today weren't ment to hurt anybody, and so they didn't. They destroyed the building where the 2 soldgiers were murdured in. Their target was a warning, not killing, and that's way they announced it earlier so that no one will be there and die.
The athmosphere here is really bad, and people are scared to get out of their house.
I think that the chance for an indipendent palestinian country here is getting more and more unreal, because when they broke ALL the agreements they signed, they made the jewish people feel they can't trust them.
When jewish people are violent here, everyone is going against them and they are arrested by the police. When the arabs kill someone, they are having giant street parties with Arafat's support. It's impossible this way. Both sides must stop the violent actions. This time, they are the ones who lighted the fire, and they should turn it off. I know that the israeli defence forces wasn't always just "defence", but these days we only react, and don't start a strugle. The people here really want peace, but now it's hard for them to believe it's possible.
I hope i made you think for a while about the other side of the coin.

For coments and questions - icq 78134929

Jih????
12 Oct 2000


Calling for "Jihad" ??
Sick of your religious binarism and stupidity. It reflects sionist binarism
that reflects anti-jewish binarism etc.etc.
Moreover you'll confirm sionist and israelian nationalist in their need to
see arab people and palestinians as a representation of nazis. And if
arab=nazis then being "weak" (for example making a peace based on
justice and international law and giving back occupied territories) is
considered (more or less) as collaboration with the great enemy and
seen as a threat to the existence of the "tribe". So it justify the "unity"
even for an apartheid policy and policies that serves US interest and
multinational oil and arm companies...

If you want a "jihad" start doing it against your own binarism.
Israel milirarism, in a high concentration of nationalism and hate, is doing
a "jihad" now.

All human being have to react, for palestinians, for isrealians, for arabs,
for human being, for women, for kids being massacred, for social, water
and land justice.
brain washing nationalism
12 Oct 2000
Read carefully to "winter" comment called "the other side", read it carefully! it is typical of a brain washing nationalism (for instance israelien nationalism) and binarism.
Opemn your eyes "winter", open your brain, your soul, your memory, if you refuse to do it for these "arabs" and palestinians you learned to fear, do it for your own future and for human being in the middle east (whatever the religion, country etc.).
"Fear" and "hate" are two keys to totalitarism, read Orwell...
Stop colonization, stop militarism and support of oil and arm-trade corporations, israelien citizens wake up and emancipate from yourself...

For documented statistics and/or factual news about who killed who and who is murdered or shot:
www.btselem.org (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories) gives well documented infos and good statistics, it's quite disgusting to count human death and to divide it with artificial criterias such as nationality but it has to be done, for justice)
www.addameer.org (Addameer Prisoners Support Association)
www.indymedia.org/il/imc/israel/webcast (IMC israel)

For in-depth analysis:
http://aic.netgate.net (english language)

Gush Shalom site:
www.gush-shalom.org (english and hebrew language)
brain, not brainwash
12 Oct 2000
dear ahmed,
i wrote what i wrote after oing a lot of thinking. i know and support "gush shalom", "betselem" and the other orgs you mentioned. as much as i support the palestinians struggle for indipendence, i have a lot of critisism about it, as i wrote in my privious comment.
i don't think i'm brainwashed. i develop my opinions after doing my own research. i live here, i don't need journalists to tell me what's right and what's wrong. i go to the problematic areas and meet people. i talk to people from both sides, and always ready to listen to more.

as much as you think that you are right and that your position is well developed, you should always listen to other people, even if you think you don't have nothing common. that's what "open your mind" means, in my opinion.
you might be surprised, but maybe they have some news, a different point of view you didn't think of; and maybe they even have their own judgement, and they didn't just read about it in a stupid magazine.

this war is different from the other wars we had.

remember, there is never just black and white.


To Winter
12 Oct 2000
Exactly there is not only black and white,
On this point we agree.

On the argument saying "I live here, I know the situation" I heard it so many times (and not only from jewish israelians or from muslim, christian palestinians also in other mediterranean and balkan conflicts).
Firstly: I won't give you details about my life and relatives living in israel and occupied territories but I know the situation (from israel and colonized territories) in a very close and personal way.

Secondly this kind of argument is partially right (yes living in Tel Aviv or Ramallah gives people a strong sense of what is going on) but it can be used (and it is often) in a manipulative way ("don't criticize my "tribe", my identity, "my" people because I live here, you don't: so feel guilty and shut up").
For instance living as an occupied and colonized palestinian under everyday israel terrorist violence and apartheid doesn't give the possibility to consider what is the view of many jews in diaspora and in israel (shoah enormous trauma, desire to come back to a protective identity represented in a state, education of fear and ignorance toward arabs "the arab sea", trauma of hamas bombings, illusion that israel is on the side of modernity because it has McDonals and post-industrial way of life etc.).

On the other side living in west jerusalem or Tel Aviv doesn't give the possibility to consider what is the view of most palestinians in diaspora and in colonized lands (trauma of european colonization and of european colonization; everyday violence of apartheid and military occupation; social, economic, personal, environmental suffering; desire to build a protective identity etc.)

Sometimes taking physical distance with middle east helps to understand, believe me...

Ahmed





One concrete example of brainwashing
12 Oct 2000
Dear winter,

In your first email, you claimed to be pro-Palestinian, then you repeated the Israeli propaganda that the soldiers killed in Ramallah ended up there "by mistake." Here is what I got from someone who is there:

"For those of you who are following the news, we are OK... Otherwise, do not
buy into the story that the Israeli soldiers that were killed by an angry mob
inside the police station got lost on their way to their station. Not only is
it very unlikely to get lost and end up in the middle of Ramallah, not just because
they know the area very well but also because they would have had to cross Palestinian
checkpoints where there are policemen, Palestinain flags, concrete barricades,
etc..., etc..,. without noticing. We had already heard the news, several hours
before the Israelis put out their "official story" that four soldiers from a
special unit had infiltrated Ramallah dressed up as Palestinian and had been
caught and found armed and arrested (and then the rest regarding the brutal killing
is true)... The general guess is that they belong to what Israel itself calls
the "Arabized" unit which carries operations exactly like that, by disguising
themselves as Palestinians. ( It's worth noting that the army had already used
a bunch of people wearing masks with the idea that they would pass as Palestinians
during the riots. This was done in the open and their pictures were all over ..."

These "Arabized units" are actually Israeli death squads that infiltrate behind Palestinian lines and assasinate people. They've been around since the Intifada. The Israeli-supported apartheid army of South Africa had them, so did the Israeli-advised army of El Salvador during the 80's,

Of course, I am against this kind of killing, but not because I give a shit about the murderers who got a taste of their own medicine, Rather, I'm against it because "mob killing" scenes like this don't help the Palestinian cause. Especially in the US, where the mainstream media is a mouthpiece for the Israeli side (from NPR to CNN), you can be sure that these scenes will just get repeated over and over.
See also:
http://www.salam.org
What do you expect?
12 Oct 2000
What do you expect from a people who have been occupied for so long? I am an American born Palestinian and I have been to Palestine so many times. I go there and when I visit the Jewish cities, it is so beautiful and developed. When I stay with my relatives in Ramallah, it is so underdeveloped. My people are frustrated because the peace talks are slow and war is happening because no side will give up the Holy Land. Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims will NEVER allow Israelis to gain authority over the holy site and Israelis will NEVER allow Palestinians authority over their holy site. Honestly, I don't know if there will ever be peace but I will tell you that Palestinians will never give up. Look at how we have survived occupation for so long with only stones.

People are dying and it is sad however, I would fly myself overseas to fight for my country. I am willing to die for Palestine. You will find that almost all Palestinians feel the same way.This is the beginning of something so huge and so inevitable.

This is the beginning of another World War and it is in the Holy Qu'ran that a war will start and it will be start in Jerusalem. The Arab countries for once will unite and so many of us will die. Do you think that this is just a coincidence that Christmas, the celebration after Ramadan, and Hanukkah will fall on or around the same day this year, being the year 2000? Is it a coincidence that war is breaking out this year because of the fight for the Holy Land?

Great piece by Robert Fisk of the Independent
12 Oct 2000
Robert Fisk has been covering the Middle East for years, first for the Irish Times, now for the Independent of London. He was the one who brought to light the video showing that there was an Israeli drone flying over the UN compound at Qana, as Israeli artillery was shelling it, killing over 100 refugees who had taken shelter there. Up to that point, the Israelis were claiming that they bombed the refugees "by mistake."

Another great analysis by Robert Fisk, from The Independent, Friday 10/13:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Middle_East/2000-10/hatred131000

Don't look to the US media for this level of analysis and understanding. After all, as Mr. Fisk himself pointed out back in 1998,

"American editors have a habit of moving their reporters to other beats the moment they have begun to understand the region ... American media coverage of the Middle East has been largely pro-Israeli -- and in their cartoons of Arabs almost racist -- for decades, and United States reporting of the Israeli-Arab conflict, with honorable exceptions such as the Christian Science Monitor, is bland to the point of tedium. The State Department line on the Middle East, always skewed toward Israel, has been followed obsequiously by most American reporters. Only weeks after United States diplomats were instructed to refer to the Israeli-occupied West Bank as "disputed" -- rather than "occupied" -- territory, American journalists began using precisely the same word ..."
See also:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/World/Middle_East/2000-10/hatred131000.shtml
give me a break...
12 Oct 2000
As someone who "enjoyed" both winter and ahmed's views- Leaving in Israel, seeing the conflict for 16 years in two different places and in both places I have lived next to an Arab village, and in both cases, I was able to visit them and enjoy their company. And out of it living on "neutral" ground, I am aware of the differences, and Ahmed has a point by saying that seeing it from a distance makes a change. But on the other hand- Much like the title- Give me a break! Israel is being attacked here by everyone without a cause.

You can argue endlessly about the Israeli fascist behaviour, but it won't get you anywhere. You are all talking about standing in the oppressed side, Israel was the oppressed for more than 3000 years. Now it ensures that it will never happen again- and the end justifies the means, especially when provocated by such events. Lynching is unacceptable, and the act was so barbaric that calling the participants of it animals will be degrading to real animals. I don't care if the soldiers got there by chance (though I don't believe it was the case) or they are a part of the Arabized units (I'll extend on that later), this is a direct, clear and simple declaration of purpose- a NO-to- peace doctrine.

Calling the Arabized- "Israeli death squads that infiltrate behind Palestinian lines and assasinate people" (in the words of Aram) is absolute bullshit. Those units infiltrate the lines but do so not in order to kill but to retrieve information on possible Palastinian infiltration terrorist acts. This is done to prevent the *real* death dquads- the Hamas, the Phatah, the Islamic Jihad and all the rest that do so on regular basis to act. Yes the Arabized have killed- but those were wanted targets, like the "Engineer" that was handed a rigged cell phone, in a brilliant operation.
One thing you (Aram) didn't mention is the "requirements" to get in this unit, the main, is your look and speach. Did you know that two of the lynched soldiers were from the former Soviet Union? white skinned, talked fluent Russian, the typical palestinian profile, no??

I am not going to start using buzz words to accuse others with binarism/zionism/nationalism or any other, but there is no escape of a legitimt accusation towards the Palestinians, their terrorist acts, and today's lynch ranks over most of the acts, are inexcusable. The way to independence can be paded with violence, and in Israel's case it was the same, but the difference is that this time, especially now with Barak as Prime Minister, there was never a partner so willing to negotiate the independence. Israel had to fight against the British, and I condemn some of what they have done, but the British weren't Barak. Barak was willing to negotiate over Jerusalem, and only those that lived in Israel can undersatnd how touchy and sensitive this issue really is. No other leader was willing to do this, not even the late Itzack Rabin, (that was murdered, by those who don't remember, by an Israeli- Ig'al Amir, that killed him with divine order- God. For we all know that Rabin was going to sell the country to the Arabs and give them a country, and god, of course, would not let that happen...) but Barak encountered a sabotaging partner- Arafat. I was very much into the peace process, I was an active member of Meretz, and had great hope, I was sure that when today comes, when I'm supposed to be in the army, I wouldn't even have to since we'll live in peace with all our neighbors. Today, I changed my mind. I always said that the Palestinians deserves a country, and I had no problems departing from the Gaza Strip, from large parts of the west bank, and even East Jerusalem. Today, I don't even think they deserve what they have recieved.

The Israeli attacks today, 35 in number during a 7 hour period, were targeted not against civilian targets but against the Ramallah police station, a radio, marina next to the Gaza port and facilities believed to belong to a terrorist organization (Hamas). Prior to each of the bombings, the helicopters have warned their intentions, and most of the places were evacuated before being hit. There is no unnecessary use of force, the targets were selected carefully and had some insurgent value.

The Palestinian Cabinet members (Oh, btw- have you noticed that some new members, nrewly-released-from-jail-hamas-and-phatah-members joined it?? That's a welcoming approach to peace, won't you say?) are whining for a long while now on how the Palestinians are an armless people while those armless people have been bombing, setting on fire, killing and now- incredibly brutally lynching for so many years? The "war" in Israel is a guerilla one, a conflict that cannot be won, with every Israeli victim that loses his life due to this war, the Palestinians have won, there is no doubt about it. Israel is using its army against a guerilla terrorist movment, one that today showed its ugliest face of all. Another armless army, walked over the Americans several decades ago, the Chiense peasents, armed with sticks (I believe TNT and even molotovs and stones are more of a weapon) used the fact that it was massive (2 million) to defeat the americans, piling its deads while advancing surely till winning. Today the Palestinians are seemingly willing to do the same, marching like sheep to the slaughter but eventually, they can win. Do you think this is a possibility? I sure hope not...

end of part one (the server won't let me post the entire thing...)
give me a break... [part 2]
12 Oct 2000
'Jihad' called for a jihad- bullshit, a jihad will lead to anahilation of the Palastine people, Barak showed his stand today and will not back away from it, any escalation will drag an Israeli escalation that the Palaestines won't be able to confront, and no help from other Arab countries will help. After the USS Cole suicide bombing by terrorists (no one, for the time of writing these lines have taken responsibility to the act) the US won't let anyone threat it's argueably biggest alley- Israel, and the force of those two combined is unsurpassable power to any Middle Eastern country, even joined with others.
He then keep on talking about the ambigiousity of the situation- Killing Palestinians is ok, Israelis is a shock. Again- Bullshit. The death of any is a pity, but fighting has its casualties and consequences, don't engage in it if you haven't taken them into consideration and willing to suffer them. During the Intifada there were many cases of Israeli soldiers breaking little kids hands after catching them throwing rocks, this was called a barbaric act, would you prefered seeing them put into caskets?

Ted C said that the two nations will have to find a way to live in peace, with today's approach in the Palestinian side (and in the Israeli, mostly within the settelers) it simply can't be. I have been to many conferences, meetings and reunions with arabs, I had a great time and I have seen that others, from the Palestinians side, had the same views, they can be talked with- the case is not lost. But a war is inevitable right now.

Ahmed, you say that Israeli need to see the Arabs as nazis, get a life! Take all those nice expressions you use over time and again and think again before using them. In every conflict you have those who oppress and those who are oppressed and you have those, in both sides, that don't agree with the majority, in Israel those are those assholes, Baruch Goldstein, Ig'al Amir, and those who posted the Rabin in SS uniforms, but the majority is commited to peace. I used to believe that in the "oppressed" side- The Palestinians, the majority was also commited to peace, I have second thoughts...

Deedee- What about Israel?? How long have they been under occupation, suffered pogroms, discrimination and atrocities? Israel is now doing basically the same to the Palastinians and for that it is no better than any of its prescesors but don't forget that Israel (till setteling in the holy land in the late 18th century, were never at home and could never show any active resistence. If you'll notice, the ones recorded were during the holocaust, when the atrocity was just unbearable. All the other were on the land of Israel/Palestine.

Another thing- Many blame Ariel Sharon for igniting the flames, and I'll use a favorite word of mine again- Bullshit. The guy is an asshole, he shouldn't have visited that place now, that was an unnecessary provocation but the disorder started a day before, and that was took as a reason to throw more oil to the flame and escalating the disorder into a full scale riot. Really unnecessary, but REALLY.

I thought a lot about posting this next thing, I decided to do so- Yasser Arafat is getting old, the guy lost the small amount of power he possessed from the second he agreed to start talking with Israel, thus recognizing it. I believe he wants to make sure that he WILL be remembered for doing something good to the people that chosen him as thier leader. Since making peace and giving his country independence legaly didn't work, he's taking to the streets in the biggest uprising that he can, and then guaranteeing his immortalization. Makes sense?
both sides are to blame
13 Oct 2000
before anyone comes down too hard on israel, people need to bear in mind that since the creation ofi israel, the palestinians have sworn that they would finish what the germans failed to do in WWII. while the israeli's havent had the best track record with the palestinians, they havent blown up buses of school children, bombed crowded markets, or shot rockets onto farms. when the palestinians can negotioate honestly without threatening to bomb everything in sight, then a real peace agreement can get worked out
Arab Immigrants in Belgium blaim the Us
13 Oct 2000
US imperialism is to blaim for the situation in Israel, together with the Zionist lobby.
If the US would stop to support the Zionist state if Israel, it would not longer exist.

Arab Immigrants in Belgium understood this verry good and burned down American and Israel Flags in Brussels.

This is not a religious war, religion is used by Imperialism to support the Zionist state and to disarm the Palistinians. Never forget that the Moslim groups (Hamas)were set up by the Mossad.
See also:
http://www.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=5641
the dangers of religious fanaticism
13 Oct 2000
While US "imperialist" designs certainly play their part in this ugly demonstration of human barbarism (on both sides) it is clear that religious fanaticism is the foundation. We can deny this all we like, but history swims in rivers of blood shed by religious fanatics (of all types) and until this fanaticism is treated as the dangerous sickness it is the blood will continue to flow. Undue attachment to locations, buildings, flags, books, dogmas, icons etc. is NEVER an excuse for violence and bloodshed. We must STOP justifying religious sickness and work towards a peaceful planet before we destroy it in the name of God.
Never learn
13 Oct 2000
Their is no right side here, all of these people are religous lunatics. The Romans had to burn down that damned temple 2000 years ago, it's time to burn the mosques there now and finish what the Romans didn't by destroying the wailing wall. I have no sympathy for anyone who kills in the name of god or believes that they are the chosen people.

I say we bug out and nike the site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.
thoughts about world war 2
13 Oct 2000
i have to thank eyal for writing many things i was to lasy to write. i want to add another thing - despite the fact i defended the IDF (for the first time in my life) these days, i have a lot of criticism about it. i was the first to protest against terrible cases of violence against palestinian citizens. but it seems like the whole world is against us. attacking only one side makes the other side (the palestinians) feel there is a legitimacy to what they do. and there is never legitimacy to terorrist acts.

the expression "holly land" means nothing to me, but i accept the fact people from both sides consider a special importence to some places. palestinians were always able to visit the religious places. we respected their believes. on the other hand, when we gave them control on josef's grave (as part of the agreements), they burned it and desytoyed it completely.
again, for me it's just a stupid grave, but for many israelis it means a lot. we have to respect each other in order to live together.
i have no problem with a palestinian country, as long as it doesn't erase israel. listening to thousands of palestinians (not just a few extreme people) screaming "itbah al yahud" (kill the jewish), makes me think again about world war 2.
Some more...
13 Oct 2000
At last someone shows some thinking....
The palestinians have sworn upon the destruction of the Jewish entity as part of their basic doctrine. They had promised to erase that, and I respected that, by doing so they showed that they wanted peace. But the question remains if they actually erased that- I don't believe so.

Han- The US is an UNwelcomed addition to the already complicated scene but you can't blame them. I never supported the states, it is a perfect example of Messiahnist attitude- and I don't stand that.
And as for the Mosad setting up the Hamas, please read the title of my first post.
You forgot to mention the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as one of your sources though... oops...

It is a religious war. Religion is the cause of most evil in the world, and over all- religious intolerence. Israel is doing the adequate to keep itself from disappearing. But none of you should worry about the option of that happening, Israel is clearly the powerful in the area, even if the forces are combined against it. And if they wish to, they could have walked over the entire area expanding it to the sizes of the biblical empire of David, but they haven't, why?? Because they WANT peace. This week it was clear to me that too many in the other side didn't. it is a sad situation, but it is gonna have to be faced, when both sides are ready to talk, not kill.

As for Winter's post- I'm not a religious person, on teh other hand, I'm agnostic. I don't believe in god, I don't believe in the religious value of any of the sites. But those who decide to do, should be respected (as long as it don't interfer with the peaceful life of others.) The recent developments in Hebron (the tomb) and Ramallah (the lynch) are inexcusable, both on a humanitarian level as well as religious.
And one clarification on winter's post- Itbah al yahud is more than kill. it is SLAUGHTER.
More truths that you won't find on CNN ...
14 Oct 2000
... or on National Underwritten Radio, ABC, NBC, etc. After all, in the US, telling the truth would make you an anti-semite.

The first quote is from FEAR AND RAGE IN PALESTINE by Katharine Viner, The Guardian (British paper) - 14 October:


About 18 months ago, I visited the Amari refugee camp
between Jerusalem and Ramallah. The makeshift homes
are poor and far too small for the large families who
live in them, but inside they are neat, with
wall-hangings of Mecca and mosque-shaped clocks. A
Palestinian woman there, while bringing me tea,
apologised for the fact that her children had dirty
faces and clothes; it was because the camp received
water only twice a week, she said. I looked up the
hill to see a gleaming settlement, Bet-El, illegally
built on Palestinian land outside of Israel, the grass
on its lawns green and lush, watered with sprinklers.

No wonder there is rage. Ordinary Palestinians always
felt that the peace process was weighted against them
- a fact apparently reflected by an anonymous Israeli
government source quoted this week in the Independent:
"The Palestinians always complain that we know the
details of every proposal from the Americans before
they do," he said. "There's a good reason for that; we
write them."



[The second quote is from TRUCE HOPES DASHED ON "DAY OF RAGE" By Rupert Cornwell, The Independent (of London) - 14 October 2000. And THIS is the key to most of the injustice in the Middle East.]

Long accustomed to guiding Middle Eastern peace-making
efforts, America has been left stunned and nervous by its
powerlessness in the crisis. President Clinton is keen to
avoid putting any pressure on Israel that could compromise
the White House bid of Vice-President Al Gore, or his wife's
campaign for the Jewish vote in her New York senate race.
See also:
http://www.salam.org
Note to Eyal
15 Oct 2000
The PLO changed its constitution so that it no longer calls for the destruction of Israel years ago. It was part of the Oslo Accords. Israel never fulfilled its promises for those accords, and continued to settle the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
It's also not simply a religious war either, you don't see this kind of violence between Jews and Muslims in the US, unless it involves the conflict in Israel. That conflict is over the continued occupation of Palestine, if the colonists were Christians instead of Jews it would be the same just like it was in French colonial Algeria.
This conflict could end instantly if Israel removed the settlements and made Jerusleum the joint capital of Palestine and Israel. But because Israel is an aggressive colonial power that won't happen.
Israel will have to stop colonozation
15 Oct 2000
Despite all religious and irrational arguments (israel oppressed during 3000 years, jerusalem-Al Quods sacred city...) something remains: the illegal occupation and colonization by israel of west bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza. Israel sionist ideology and ashkenazim leaders worked (and are working) to deny this but the facts remains.
The conflict will end (and hamas and co. will go back in their dirty hole) when israel will evacuate its military and police troops.
After non-nationalist arabs, palestinians and isralian jews will have to work very hard to dismantle bombs and guns remaining in memories and communities...to build (I hope so) a middle-east different from sionism, panarabism, religious fanatism and western consumerism.
Barak peace-lover ?? ha ha ha !!! I'll give very soon pieces of speech he gave to right-wing settlers in illegaly occupied territories...

Israel wake-up

resist temptation to hate...
15 Oct 2000
As a white American, when I see images of an angry mob of Palestinians killing Israeli soldiers, I see something less than what my own "people" have been and continue to be capable of. (I only need to think of mob lynchings in the South with no provocation what so ever, to find worse examples in my "people's" past. Or the genocide against the Iraqi people for a more recent example. Or the recent hate killings out of racism or homophobia.) When I see the legacy and perpetuation of colonization, excessive force, and atrocities committed by Israeli people, again I cannot hate an entire people. My own people are equally capable of such brutality and have shown it from the founding of this country to the present day.

Don't fall into the trap of the divide and conquer strategy of the oil magnates and their tools, the corporate media and the corporate sponsored American governement. We, every one of us, are capable of brutality. And each of us is capable of beautiful acts of love. We can never judge the hearts and minds and potential for peace of an entire people based on the actions of some. To do so is nothing short of RACIST! There has been much injustice in this region that needs to be healed, (somehow, I don't know how, and I know it will not be an easy process.) But the test of each of our ability to build peace from the ground up is whether we are willing to do the difficult task of searching into our own hearts to weed out traces of hatred and evil or if we will be cowards and resort to racism. There are many Israelis, many Palestinians and many Americans who really do want peace. It is up to all of us to build on these people by adding ourselves to their ranks and convincing others to do the same. Even as a show of force against an oppressive occupying army may be necessary for Palestinians (I cannot judge), don't let your heart be tricked into hating *all* Israelis and Americans, because some are with you in this struggle in spirit, heart and sometimes even deed. I am not asking anyone to be weak and let people walk over them. I am asking Americans and Israelis to try and put the levels of force of their respective militaries into perspective and think how you would feel looking into the barrel of such enormous death machines. I am simply asking everyone to remember to see themselves in the face of "the other", because it is definitely there. Just look hard enough and you will see it.
accomplish
06 Nov 2000
violent protests by palestinians are getting them one thing: dead.

therefore i disagree with the people who say violence is the only way to struggle. i disagree with those who say one should imitate one's oppressors.

and to those who think nonviolent struggle is ineffective against vast empires, i have one word. gandhi.

love
sgcollins
accomplish
06 Nov 2000
violent protests by palestinians are getting them one thing: dead.

therefore i disagree with the people who say violence is the only way to struggle. i disagree with those who say one should imitate one's oppressors.

and to those who think nonviolent struggle is ineffective against vast empires, i have one word. gandhi.

love
sgcollins
christmas.... or whatever?
04 Dec 2000
ummmm..... what do you do for christmas, in Isral? It's a project i'm doing and, i need help on information. I would really appreciate your help! Thank you!
christmas.... or whatever?
04 Dec 2000
ummmm..... what do you do for christmas, in Isral? It's a project i'm doing and, i need help on information. I would really appreciate your help! Thank you!
Nonviolence?
05 Dec 2000
By nonviolence do you mean the Palestinians should handle this matter through international law? They already have, if fact, the UN has repeatedly backed the Palestinians and declared the unlawful killings of the Palestinians unlawful. But to what effect? Nothing, day in and day out more Palestinians are killed with no justice prevailing. When a critical system (UN) is failing the victims its trying to protect, the only other option is protecting yourself. How do they protect themselves? By throwing rocks, stones, trash cans, anything they can get their hands on, while the Jews shoot rubber bullets, drop bombs, and throw tear gas!!
Oh yeah, and one more thing before I go...How can the Jews commit genocide and still be angry about the Halocaust? What they are doing now is the same as what the Nazi's did to them in World War II.
hmmmm?
07 Dec 2000
shouldn't you guys be in bed after 12 for gods sake
They need to stop that ''DAM'' killing now
27 Dec 2000
Dear, editor
They should no any better than shooting them poor people over there. they are also scared to come out of there
houses. they think that is so funny. they should be put in
the eletric chair. how they feel if somebody killed one of
there family and friends. The bible said you shall not kill anyone that was gods promise. those palkinstans have no
right to kill these people. they have better since then they do also. the palkinstans should be in bars instead killing those that should have a better life with those mean people over there also.


P.S. In georgia we do some killing but they end up in
prison or the big house also. they should learn not to
kill each other that kind of way. we have better since
than doing what those people do over there in that bad
country.
See also:
http:// @sandersville.net
stop the murder killing
27 Dec 2000
them palkinstans have no right to kill these children at all
any way they should learn that familys have to find there
child on the street and find a bullet wound to the brain
and the heart also to. they should think of what they have
done to these familys and parents. to watch there child go
to school and find that there child has gunned down and
they would go to there school and find one of there child on the floor bleeding to death. and the palkinstans would just the parents cry over there child. and they would also laugh at the father and mother watched there youngter be
shot till he would not be there to be his family & friends.
they should learn that they did something wrong to there
child. they other people should put the palkinstans in jail
or cut there head of. or do something else better than
doing what they are doing to there also. they better have
something else to do. Like water the flowers, feed the
animals, do the fields, wash there clothes dry there towels. and go to there dam church just read the dam bible. they should stop that dam killing also. they should have a better future than that killing needs to stop at once. they should know any better than that. they should have better
no that god takes the bad people to hell and the good people
to a better place, I hope you send this letter over in that
country. they should write this page a millon times i don't
care if there arm comes of also,

















See also:
http://@sandersville.net
peace
28 Dec 2000
what the palistinans are doing is wrong. They oppenly accuse Israel as being against peace (which is totaly untrue) yet at the same time they send their children out to the streets armed with stones, guns, slingshots all with an intention to kill. And when the soldiers respond with gun fire, the palistinans call it barbaric. We all know that the palistinans dont want peace, they never have and lets face it, they never will. They hate Israel so much that they are willing to send out their children knowing that they will get killed to make the point that they want no peace. Then the terrorists bomb markets and school buses as an 'act of revenge'. You cannot get more cowardly than that. These children going to school are inocent, they are not throwing stones or distrubing the peace. Their death, or atempted death is cowardly and just worsens the situation.
why cant you people just talk peace. Israel is offering you all of the gaza strip, 95% of the west bank, a highway linking the two, East Jerusalem with the most sacred holly sites. And yet they decline like they have done year in, year out.
The only way that the palistinans will get their state is if they are commited to peace. Peace works both ways, and cannot work one way. Israel is commited fully to peace, the palistinans are not. This must change, otherwise their will never be a full peace in Israel.
help
19 Apr 2001
the isreal state not country, will not survive
the moslims are comming closer every day to destroy such peopel who like blood like the isrealies
That what we need to hear
31 May 2001
Israeal never was such a thing to care a bout and would never be so!
Their end is coming soooooooon by the help of God, what was taken by power will be back by power as well...
All what I want to say is , keep on Palastinies and HezpAllah because we need to get rid of this violence, and put a PERIOD for this story!!!!
Israeli apologists are a bunch of wankers
01 Jun 2001
Eyal, Eric, Lucullus, "sad", Rebecca from Georgia, Ferazzo etc. Stop apologising for Israel, since I first posted this nearly 500 Palestinians have been killed by the forces of Zionist aggression.
Eyal you are full of shit, the Israeli gangsters forced my family's ancestors out of their homes in Ramallah and chased them all the way to Sabra and Chatila where I had the misfortune of being born. I live in Australia now because of the Zionist scum.
Ferazzo complains that what the Palestinians are doing is "wrong" if someone kicked you out of your home and you decided to fight back is that wrong, try putting yourself in someone elses shoes
Rebecca you must be from another planet or something, I don't comment about people from Georgia, so don't comment about us, "palkinstans" shows how much you know
As MacArthur once said, I too will return to our land the land of the Palestinian people, nothing is ever changed without violence, Palestine for Muslims, Jews, Christians and Bedouin from the river to the sea
The Zionist curse must be destroyed, Zionism is almost an anagram for Nazism, and the Nazis got what was coming to them so will Sharon, Peres and the American settlers, see ya next year in East Jerusalem, capital of Palestine

Salaam
Jihad
IN GOD WE TRUST
27 Jul 2001
I DON´T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD AND I AM PROUD TO SAY SO.
BUT I BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS FOR REAL AND WHAT HE SAID
WAS HOW IT SHOULD BE. THIS IS TO ALL PALESTINIANS.
I AM WITH YOU AND I HOPE THAT SOMEDAY YOU WILL HAVE
WHAT´S YOURS. AND FOR ALL THOSE SO CALLED "IN GOD WE TRUST" PEOPLE FROM THE US. DO YOU THINK GOD TRUST YOU ?. DO YOU THINK GOD WANTED YOU TO GIVE WEAPONS TO THE JUDES SO THEY CAN KILL PEOPLE AND THEN GO AND BEG FOR PEACE ?. GOD DOES NOT TRUST YOU AND NEVER WILL. YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL AND I HOPE I´LL BE THERE TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS OK.
Israeal 's crimes
02 Oct 2001
How israeal son usa can get away after killed so many innocent people in newyork , all computers e mails r censered by israeal usa agents . i do not know how u r operating in these natzi's countries who's crimes have even exceeded to hitlers crimes againt jews.
See also:
n/a
Israeal 's crimes
02 Oct 2001
How israeal son usa can get away after killed so many innocent people in newyork , all computers e mails r censered by israeal usa agents . i do not know how u r operating in these natzi's countries who's crimes have even exceeded to hitlers crimes againt jews.
See also:
n/a