US Indymedia Global Indymedia Publish About us
Printed from Boston IMC : http://boston.indymedia.org/
Boston.Indymedia
IVAW Winter Soldier

Winter Soldier
Testimonies
Brad Presente

Other Local News

Spare Change News
Open Media Boston
Somerville Voices
Cradle of Liberty
The Sword and Shield

Local Radio Shows

WMBR 88.1 FM
What's Left
WEDS at 8:00 pm
Local Edition
FRI (alt) at 5:30 pm

WMFO 91.5 FM
Socialist Alternative
SUN 11:00 am

WZBC 90.3 FM
Sounds of Dissent
SAT at 11:00 am
Truth and Justice Radio
SUN at 6:00 am

Create account Log in
Comment on this article | View comments | Email this article | Printer-friendly version
Announcement :: Politics
ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
16 Jun 2004
What: Smashing Fascism!
When: Sunday, June 20th 10:00am
Where: Directly outside the Park st. T station on the commons (look for flags and banners)
What: Smashing Fascism!
When: Sunday, June 20th 10:00am
Where: Directly outside the Park st. T station on the commons (look for flags and banners)

On June 20th nazis will be gathering in Boston to spread hatred during the Isreali independence celebration occuring that day. They will be claiming to support the Palestinian people when they are actually doing this to further their own anti-semetic and racist agenda. These nazis are simply using the palestinian solidarity movement to do this, in spite of their hatred for palestinians and all arabs. While other groups have made plans to legitimately voice opposition to the state of Israel on that day, we must not allow nazis to demonstrate under this pretense. Regardless of all the other politics being demonstrated, Northeast Antifascists believe in confronting fascists where ever they go. Help us rid our streets of this scum and ensure that fascists never feel secure spreading their message of hate.

This work is in the public domain
Add a quick comment
Title
Your name Your email

Comment

Text Format
Anti-spam Enter the following number into the box:
To add more detailed comments, or to upload files, see the full comment form.

Comments

Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
And what about the racist, apartheid Zionists who will be there by the hundreds? The three Nazis who may or may not turn up for this event are more worthy of attention than the hundreds of hard-core Zionists who have the backing of the US government, massive military, a state, and nuclear weapons? WTF?

These Nazis - if they even show up at all - are a miniscule, completely marginalized group. You people really need to develop a sense of proportion.
The call is a manipulation.
17 Jun 2004
I agree with "Huh?"

The way the article is written, it implies that you will recognize the "NAZIS" by their anti-Zionist stand. Of course, nearly all of the anti-Zionists at the protest will be there because they oppose fascism. Whatever small number of "NAZIS" show up, they will be like neadles in a hay stak to find. Those looking for them will pick out normal anti-Zionists and start a witch-hunt, victimizing protesters who come out for the right reason.

Sure, if you see someone dressed as a Nazi and/or making anti-Semitic remarks, treat them as badly as you would treat a Zionist making anti-Arab remarks.

In any case, the article seems like an attempt to cause conflict within the demonstration between real anti-Zionists by spreading the false rumor that some signifcant number are Nazis.

One last thing, how many Nazis do you really believe will come out to hang out with Palestinians and Arabs? My guess is almost none. After all, Nazis are racists.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Huh and A-huh are really off, and quite naive. The neo-Nazi movement in this country has actively been using false Palestinian solidarity for their recruitment. For instance, last year during the gigantic anti-war demonstration in Boston late in March 2003, two members of the World Church of the Creator (identifiable by their tattoos) were distributing leaflets saying that Isarel was behind the war and that it was part of Jewish efforts to manipulate real white people. There are actually pictures of those assholes on Boston Indy if you can find the coverage of that demo.

I'd also urge you to go to http://www.onepeoplesproject.com for a radical anti-fascist perspective which includes coverage of past Nazi attempts to co-opt the Palestinain cause for recruitment.

A-huh writes that it appears that Nazis will be recognized by their anti-Zionist stand. I'm not clear where this comes from, as it makes clear that the opposition is to Nazism, not criticism of Israel or Zionism. Anyone who does Palestinian solidarity work who is unable to distinguish their perspecitve from a Nazi perspective (i.e., one that criticizes Jews rather than the actions of the Israeli state, one that implies that Jews somehow have power over to policies of the US rather than the US using Israel as a client state, etc.) needs to do some hard thinking.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
I'm glad people are protesting Nazis, but I hope we're not talking about phsyically smashing fascism or fascists--I don't want them portrayed as victims in the media! Denounce them, but don't attack them.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Who said some of us won't be protesting Israeli Independence Day on top of confronting the nazis?
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Ummm.. so "Nazis suck" calls me "naive" for pointing out how completely marginal and irrelevant these Nazi idiots are by saying there were TWO of them at some rally. TWO! ^roflmao^

So can we expect these two guys to show up for this big festival of thousands and thousands of racists? I guess your right though. It would be "naive" to protest the thousands and thousands of racists in the streets of Boston who are advocating taking our tax dollars and turning them into dead Palestinians and nuclear weapons. Yep. We should instead go out and spend lots of time organizing against two guys who probably live in a trailer park.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Doesn't look to me like anyone is trying to (a) force you into confronting people who you are not interested in confronting, or (b) stopping you from protesting whoever you would like to protest. It is a call to action, meaning you are free to join the effort or not. Really, it's entirely up to you.

If it is not worth your time to confront a public mobilization of neo-Nazis in the city, than I would assume it must really be a waste of time for you to labor over a denounciation (not once but twice) of a call to action to confront them. Wouldn't you think?
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
No, because you are proposing to take participants away from an anti-racist event that we have been organizing for months in an irrelevant sideshow in which you, no doubt, will try to physically attack the Nazis and then of course all the press coverage will be about you lot and the TWO Nazis instead of about the genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinian people and the US tax dollars that it is used to pay for it.

You are the same people who put out a pamphlet all about how "free speech" is some sort of bourgeois pathology so I really don't expect you to understand why we would like our voices or opposition to genocide heard over the sound of your street fight with two Nazis.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
so yeah this call is stupid and protesting two racists in stead of a whole bunch of racists is really stupid and that pamphlet thing was mad stupid

BUT you gotta give these antifa people props for one thing ...... they been all of like three posts now without asking anybody to buy one of their sweatshop t shirts .so at least they're getting better. unfortunetly i bet if you actually go to their /beat down nazis in the street/ event theyll have tons of flyers asking you to buy their swaetshop tshirts and hoodys though. boneheads are bad but sweatshop labor is good.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Let us make this clear. First of all, the police have already given the nazis a permit for their own space on sunday. We have no intention of walking around the plaza attempting to find the "needles in the haystack," or accusing random people of being nazis simply for their anti-zionist stance. It has already been made clear that we respect the views of most of those who plan to come out on sunday for anti-zionist demos but refuse to ignore an outright nazi presence no matter how small. True there may only be a few of them, but in the past groups like the national alliance have mobilized nearly 500 people under the pretense of supporting the palestinians and being anti-zionists. If you are so concerned with what the media will say that day, then you might want to consider doing something to make it clear that these nazis are not on the same side as you are since thats what they'll be claiming. Those who have posted concerns with this call seem to be ignoring the fact that part of what these people are trying to do is co-opt the very thing you have spent so long organizing for. As far as being concerned with such a small number of people, if we ignore them, they will not go away but will only grow, history has proven this fact time and time again and we refuse to make this mistake. We have no intention in causing devides on either side of this issue, theres plenty of that already, our purpose is to say that no matter where one stands, you must not stand next to fascists.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
Wow. Ten comments on an announcement. Seems like sort of waste, but I am interested by this comment: "you must not stand next to fascists".

Hmm, so given this pronouncement, I take it we can look forward to your little group "confronting" the RCP, WWP, and Spart contingents at this protest, right? Or were you planning to "stand next to" them?
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
"BUT you gotta give these antifa people props for one thing..."

Urgh. Give it a rest already.

Who has ever tried to sell you an Antifa t-shirt? The only place I have ever even seen these was on consignment at the LPC. I have never, ever heard of anyone showing up to a demo or event trying to sell them. Ever.

I have no comment on where the things were made. For all I know someone got a free hook-up on t-shirts. Whatever. Doesn't seem like your much of an anti-sweatshop crusader, just a sectarian asshole trying to start shit.

Some people have WAY too much time on their hands...
Fight the fascists wherever you find them
17 Jun 2004
Clearly the Palestinian solidarity movement will suffer if it gets associated with white supremists. Thus the struggle against Israeli aggresion cannot be divorced from the struggle against these racists. Northeast Antifa and the others who will be confronting the nazis deserve praise for their efforts. If you're woried about media coverage, think how much worse it would be if the Nazis are able to protest unmolested and the Palastinian solidarity movement can be portrayed as being tolerant of their views.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
I find this back and forth distressing. Other than actual fascists, who would possibly be against confronting hate groups? Who would possibly think that it is okay to give neo-nazis a space to promote racial holy war? Who would possibly attack comrades for doing something about these right-wing assholes trying to take over our movement?


How can any radical publically state that they are against a group of anti-authoritarans confronting organized fascism? Imagine if we just started letting nazis show up to and co-opt our events?

No one said anything about "beating down" anyone, nor has anyone said anything about selling T-shirts. Rob, just because you have political differances with those who fight racism (remember when you spoke out against the Anarchist People of Color Conference) doesn't mean you should go out of your way to deter honest folks from standing up against hate. If you think that nazis should be welcome at our events than simply send them an invitation, otherwise groups like Northeast Antifascists will work to keep our streets clean.

Mk is right on when he commends you folks for showing up to denounce fascists. If I were in Boston, I would most certainly be in the streets with you.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
17 Jun 2004
This is all pointless arguing. Zionists policies are fascist. I also consider Nazi's fascists, and i don't think anyone disagrees about that. Let's stand together and stamp out ALL fascism.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
nazis, like other fascists (i.e. statist communists), are using the strategy of co-opting a "leftist" movement in order to gather followers. They're doing it with the anti-globalization movement (and in turn zionists like to accuse EVERYONE who opposes globalization of being "anti-semitic"), and are doing it with the anti-zionist movement. Good for the AntiFa people for addressing this! it's obviously going to be more than "2 nazis wandering around" if they have a permitted space.
plus, what's with all of the underlying "with us or against us" shit in this thread? it seems like some people are saying that opposing nazis within "anti-zionist" ranks is equivalent to supporting israel.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
Adam, I made one comment, which you seem to have ignored, so I'll repeat it for the hard of listening.

>>
Wow. Ten comments on an announcement. Seems like sort of waste, but I am interested by this comment: "you must not stand next to fascists".

Hmm, so given this pronouncement, I take it we can look forward to your little group "confronting" the RCP, WWP, and Spart contingents at this protest, right? Or were you planning to "stand next to" them?
>>

What this could possibly have to do with APOC is unclear to me, except in so far as that in both case and this one you folks seem to be having difficulty with the intellectual consistency. You are against some racists but not others, some fascists but not others. Basic consistency is not very much to ask.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
I don't really want to get into a pissing match here, particularly because your antics on the infoshop post got the entire thing deleted. But, I must say that, when it comes to consistency, I have a lot of respect for Northeast Antifascist (I am no longer a member of this group as I do not live in Boston).

They have a very clear policy of confronting hate groups wherever they show up. They are willing to do the hard (and sometimes dangerous) work necesary to keep our movement and events the revolutionary actions we intend them to be, rather than allowing them to be co-opted by neo-nazis.

Also, I think that you have an unclear understanding of what fascism is. Fascism is not simply a cath-all phrase for things that we deem to be bad or hierarchal. Fascism is a political philosophy based on social control where the voices of the majority are forced into a concert of contempt for those deemed sub-human. It lacks democracy in even the most basic form and survives because of its violent attacks on any opposistion. While our government, and the government of Israel, are clearly conservative, violent, oppressive, and bad, there is a huge differance between people who voted for Bush or Sharon (or for the Labor party in Israel of for Gore) and those people who seek to create a nazi-like regime here is America. All propaganda and dogmatism aside, Bush leads a republic. Sharon leads a republic. Nazis seek to lead a dictatorship of sorts where dissent isn't mearly frowned upon but it punishable by death.

I find it strange that you would honestly compare neo-nazis to statists. Yes, states are bad and yes neo-nazis are bad (I assume you agree, but wouldn't be suprised if you didn't). But, they are differant in their aims and distinct in their principles.

And, frankly, to call Anarchist People of Color racists simply because they didn't invite your white ass to a meeting is pretty presposterous.

Please stop actively trying to divide our movement. The state, the fascists, and the sparts are enough enemies for right now.
Personal Issues
18 Jun 2004
Point made everyone. Please please don't allow personal issues and conflicts to spill into a public forum. You each know who you are, and you can get in touch directly without any problem.

Just for the sake of other Boston A's. Let's not do this on indymedia.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
Oh, please give me a break from your delusions of personal grandeur. I haven't even seen this thread on Infoshop, much less commented on it, and when I went to look just now there's not even one listed going back for days. What that some sort of elaborate ruse or were you just making shit up like you did with your historical arguments?

As to this somehow being a personal pissing match, from the looks of this thread it's pretty obvious that long before I got here people had taken exception to this event and already posted ten back and forth comments. Regardless of whether or not I might think any of those people on either side made good points, I only asked about the aspect of consistency with the "stand next to fascists" nonsense. How that somehow merited your dragging me into this personally is baffling. Whatever. In any case, both your bizzarely inflated self-image and your equally bizzare conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

As to that hilarious rant of your about Sharon, Bush, and Nazis, let us revist the facts. The Nazi Party and the PNF (the Italian Fascist Party) were both massively popular with the REPUBLICS in which they both won power. Both parties were the largest national parties even before their respective heads took dictatorial power. And your inane comment about people who voted for Bush versus those who voted for Hitler is just completely untenable; 37% of the German public voted for Hitler, while less than 25% of the American public voted for Bush.

Now, I know that your politics vis a vis Israel and your support for a Zionist apartheid state in Israel are hurdles to seeing the obvious parallels, but claiming that Sharon's lifetime of pursuing genocide against Palestinians is somehow okay relative to Hitler because he was elected is both historically, intellectually, and morally bankrupt.

In fact, were we to stand in 1932 and look in disgust on the election of the Nazis as the largest German political party, your exact same argument could have been made: "All propaganda and dogmatism aside, Hitler leads a republic. There is a huge differance between people who voted for Hitler and those people who seek to create a Soviet-like regime here is Germany." But, as I say, intellectualy consistency has never been your strong suit. You always have one set of rules for one group of people and another for another group.

It is also rather pathetic that you, as a member of a group that calls itself "anti-fascist" apparently aren't even aware of what the word means or what social systems you are "anti-". Being a racist, just to point out one of your many confusions on the issue, is optional while nationalism is necessary. Fascism is the glorification of and centralization of life into the state and has been referred to variously as "statolotry" by its critics or "corporatism" by its supporters for this very reason.

I would further ask questions such as "You stand beside Stalinists who killed 25 million but not Nazis who killed 12?" and "What possible undersatnding could you have of the terms "apartheid" and "genocide" if Sharon is not busily committing them?" and so forth. Given your obvious lack of interest in historical veracity and your willingness to concoct wild conspiracy theories and blandly put forward arguments that are blatantly contradicted by even a cursory keyword search, I see no point.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
Rob,

I do not have your e-mail adress, but you clearly have mine. I would appreciate you sending me your e-mail adress so that we could continue this offline.

Before we move this debate offline, I must first clear up some of the mis-information that filled your last post.

First of all, despite saying this previously, let me once again make it clear that I am not speaking for Northeast Antifascist, nor am I even a member of the group. In fact, I don't even live in Boston any longer. They do, however, have my full and complete support and respect.

Secondly, I am an anarchist. I have organized as one for years. I have belonged to various anarchist groups, lectured on anarchism, participated in anarchist theory building, and sacrificed a great deal in the struggle for a free society. As such, your claim that I am a "zionist" is particularly amusing. Other than an attempt at personal destruction, I can't imagine why you would do something so clearly malicious and mis-informed, particularly because the two of us have never even discussed the issue. I am an anarchist, not a zionist.

Third, it is clear that you are putting words into my mouth and into the mouth of Northeast Antifascist. As an individual I have and as an organization they have continually denounced Sharon and the policies of the Israeli state. No one in the group supports Sharon. In fact, the vast majority of the members of Northeast Antifascist are anarchists. I don't understand why you would possibly claim that antifa is pro-Sharon or pro-Israel. What is your agenda here?

Also, I can't understand your claim that Northeast Antifascist stands with stalinists and statists. The group is explicity anti-authoritarian. In every document and flyer they have ever produced they have billed themselves as anti-authoritarian. In discussion, members of the group reject statist communism. When I was a member of the group, we stood against fascism and authoritarianism.

I have a clear understanding of fascism. When I used the word "minority" in my previous post, I didn't specify the type of "minority". It could be a religious minority, racial minority, ethnic minority, etc. Clearly fascism can exist without racism, but it does demand a system of oppression and scapegoating of a powerless group. In the case of American neo-nazis, they seek dominance on racial, religious, sexual-orientation, and ability location.

Finally, while your poll results from the middle part of the century were enlightenting. In reality, they were completely irrelevant. It is not the method by which a group gains power that is the true determinant of its politics, but rather what it does with that power. Fascist groups could be popularly elected (35% doesn't come close) and still, once in power, move their state from a republic to a dictatorship.

I send my solidarity to everyone attending the action on Sunday and I will not take up any more of indymedia's space or your time.
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
18 Jun 2004
I don't know who "Huh" and "A-huh" are, nor how they are connected to "Adam" or "Rob." I'm not a member of Northeast Antifa and haven't been to any of their demos (tried to go up to Lewiston, when the World Church of the Creator was there a while back, but missed my ride).

But I will say this: Anyone who claims to do Palestinian solidarity work and doesn't actively denounce Nazis who try to co-opt their demo is betraying their own cause and discrediting the Palestinian solidarity movement. The simple fact is that Nazis ARE trying to co-opt your movement for their ends. Will you let them? There are numerous examples of this, including the 3-500 person demo by the National Alliance in DC in August 2002 which was billed as an "anti-Israel" rally. (Clearly, you didn't look at the One Peoples Project website or do any other research before you blithely dismissed what I said.) There are also non-fascist anti-Jewish elements within your movement. Will you stand up to them along with the Nazis? Or will you let them spread their shit, muddy your message and give the right-wing fodder for their bullshit claims that criticizing Israel is anti-Jewish?

You have the choice. What kind of action will you have on Sunday, and what stand will you take?
Re: ANTIFA CALL TO ACTION
22 Jun 2004
before. http://boston.indymedia.org/newswire/display/22376/index.php

... As an individual I have and as an organization they have continually denounced Sharon and the policies of the Israeli state. No one in the group supports Sharon. In fact, the vast majority of the members of Northeast Antifascist are anarchists. I don't understand why you would possibly claim that antifa is pro-Sharon or pro-Israel. What is your agenda here? ...



after. http://boston.indymedia.org/newswire/display/22522/index.php

... Beforehand, we had decided to not take a stance on the Israeli/ Palestinian issue, and felt that siding with one or the other would detract from our primary goal of confronting the fascists. ...