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Interview :: Organizing
Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
09 Jul 2004
Pirates Against Bush, a new, student-run, local, activist group hopes to raise enthusiasm for politics and combat apathy with fun costumes, colorful attitudes, but serious issues. Just what is Pirates Against Bush? I talked to Captain Laura and Squashbuckler Eric to find out.
pablogo.jpg

The homepage for the new activist group Pirates Against Bush (PAB) proclaims that: "Pirates Against Bush is a small group of, well to put it simply, pirates. We are dissenters, subversives, activists, radicals, fighters, lovers, protesters, revolutionaries, culture jammers, and rebels. A motley crew to be sure. In true pirate fashion, we find the administration currently in place to be stifling, oppressive and all-together bad for our health. As is evident by our name this group was created with the mission of getting George W. Bush OUT of office. " There flyers declare "It's time to take more action then the ballot." They have been spotted in Copley Square, donning pirate outfits and waving pirate flags, at local healthcare rallies, gay rights marches, and even on No Censorship Radio (88.1 fm operating out of M.I.T. in Cambridge). With 30 members on their site in less than two months and an newsletter email list with about the same size, PAB has grown rather quickly. But just what is Pirates Against Bush? In a phone interview with the founder of the group, who goes by Captain Laura, and a quick interview with Squashbuckler Eric, I got more information.

“I started [P.A.B.] because I’ve always been drawn to the performing arts as protest and social commentary, and I feel that there are a lot of aspects of street theater in Pirates, like our costumes, etc. Besides that, I felt really frustrated with the number of apathetic youth out there, and that frustration coupled with the belief that protests with a certain theatrical flare or outlandish element are not only more fun and engaging for the activists, they often peak the interest of passerby’s more. Argg,” she said.

(Pirates are shown at a rally they organized on June 5th, 2004, in solidarity with worldwide protests against Bush and the Iraq War.)
bushLied.jpg

I still wasn't all to sure why pirates had been chosen. After all, aren't pirates notorious for being raping, pillaging, and murdering outlaws?
? “Pirates are not only swashbucklingly exciting and roguely mysterious, but they are also that the group that traditionally thumbs its nose at the current system of government. Though pirates have been historically known to be a generally mean spirited bunch, our crew is pretty friendly.”

The crew consists mostly of high school students, including Captain Laura and her other close comrades who organize meetings, rallies, interviews, a mailing list, and their website. The group also contains at least one college student and around five adults, whose ages are not certain.

Pirates Against Bush has not recieved a warm welcome from the activist community. "It's hard when you're just getting started, because people are very wary of you," says Squashbuckler Eric, a moderator on the site among other things. Pirates has tried to work closely with other activists groups, but only Bl(A)ck Tea Society has expressed any real interest. Pirates did hold a Flag Day demonstration outside the Hynes Convention Center T stop on Newbury street with members of the Anarchist Social Club, where they waved a black flag and passed out flyers asking the pedestrians who received them to think about what the United States flag stood for and questioned the need for the national holiday.

(In photo, Squashbuckler Eric waving the Jolly Roger at a PAB rally)
pirate+flag.jpg


Pirates Against Bush will be tabling at Bl(A)ck Tea Society's "Really, Really Democratic Bazaar" on July 27th during the Democratic National Convention (DNC). When asked why Pirates Against Bush would be protesting the DNC at the bazaar and at a rally the day before, Captain Laura said, "We are going to be at the DNC because we are pirates against what Bush stands for, and this election year we have found that what Bush stands for often transcends political party lines." She also added that "Pirates Against Bush is not Pirates for Anyone but Bush or Pirates for Kerry, but we welcome all political affiliations. Our unifying factor is that we are pirates who oppose Bush, but within that, we leave a lot of room for personal interpretation.

Pirates contains different political affiliations, from Democrats to anarchists." Most PAB members were already politically active, and saw Pirates as a way to more effectively work against the things they opposed; namely, George W. Bush and everything his administration stands for. The group is also opposed to all forms of oppression, from racism to sexism to homophobia to social classes. The group would also like to clarify that statements of revolution and "more action than the ballot" are not calls to arms, but rather statements that people must be active. They do not believe in illegal actions, and they consider revolution necessary in the brain, not on the streets. "People need to have a revolution in the way they think and act. I personally have a big problem with advertising, capitalism, and the two party system as well, but I am not asking anyone to do anything irrational, but rather to start questioning the foundation. May I recommend reading Culture Jam?" states Squashbuckler Eric, referring to the book by Adbusters founder Kalle Lasn. The book talks about mental revolution and a massive nonviolent movement against big business.

Pirates Against Bush will be having their first official meeting on Monday, July 12, at 6 pm. They request that anyone interested in coming, being on the mailing list, or anyone who has questions to email them at PiratesAgainstBush (at) hotmail.com
See also:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piratesagainstbush/
https://secure.adbusters.org/orders/culturejam/

This work is in the public domain.
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Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
09 Jul 2004
apologies for the large size of the pictures, I couldn't figure how to make them smaller and they kind of look like bites out of the article. Feedback please!
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
09 Jul 2004
VOTE BUSH OUT!
FREE OURSELVES FROM THE PATRIOTS ACT!
THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO SPY ON ALL OF US! THEY WON'T REPEAL THE PATRIOTS ACT! READ THE FACTS. THE GOP WANTS TO SPY ON ALL OF US! IS THIS NAZI 101? OR IS THIS AMERICA?
YOU DECIDE.
VOTE BUSH OUT!
Enough with Oversimplified Rhetoric
10 Jul 2004
Kerry voted for (and still supports) the Patriot Act.

I hope you aren't implying that people should vote for Kerry to free ourselves of government spying. Look what is happening to Boston activists because Kerry's f*ing convention is invading our city.

http://boston.indymedia.org/feature/display/23180/index.php
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
10 Jul 2004
Amen, Choke.

Government spying is a tool of our current governmental SYSTEM not of one president or another.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
10 Jul 2004
Eric, I think this publication is great!
What about the www.piratesagainstbush.tk site that is not listed here?
Or is the yahoo thing still the official one? there are links from the www.piratesagainstbush.tk site to the yahoo one so people can easily become a Pirate or sign up for the news letter.

Unhoy,
Pirate Phoebe
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
12 Jul 2004
I only posted that one link to Pirates because the format only let me have 2 links, but yes, people should check the link in the previous post as well.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
16 Jul 2004
Choke-
Agreed that Kerry sucks too. Pirates Against Bush, was formed around, well, protesting against Bush. I know a bunch of the people involved, and I see it more as a way to get a larger group to protest one issue that they can all agree on, rather than as an oversimplification. A number of them are also against Kerry and are going to be at BTS protests at the DNC.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
17 Jul 2004
War is icky. :(
In the last 20 years the US has had a hand in freeing nearly a billion people. What have you done lately? Frankestein syndrome afflicted brats.
Did mommy love you too much or not enough?
Yeah, that USSR thing worked out real well. Twas a paradise. Put down the Noam Chomsky long enough to think for youselves, you brainwashed, self-centered little ninnies.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
20 Jul 2004
Yo, Holly, figure out who you're talking to. I deeply dislike the Soviet Union (though talking about it 14 years after its collapse is a bit funny). I also deeply dislike the economic and military policies pushed by the US. And the one book I own by Chomsky deals as much with linguistics as with politics (and he doesn't like the Soviet Union much either).

If you want to criticize me or others here, it'll take a bit more than name-calling and references to collapsed autocracies.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
20 Jul 2004
Yo Matt,
Please to inform me exactly which economic policies of the US you disagree with. I can only assume it is capitalism as a whole. Which policy or system would you prefer? The European socialist model with it's double digit unemployment, inflation, crushing taxes, moral relativism and almost total lack of free speech? Perhaps the third world African model rife with complete corruption, disease, starvation, genocide, and utter lack of respect of fellow men? The Cuban model? North Korean, China? Maybe the Arabist one, which encompasses all these things in one tidy littly package for you. As Mr. Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government ever tried, except for all the others." With out writing a treatise of why US military policies are correct, I will in short just say that yes, sometimes war IS the answer, that usually the only way to achieve peace is to kill your enemy. It is a sad but true fact of the world. Overwhelmingly the US has been a force for good in this world (not to say we havn't done some not so good things), But people like you believe the US is to blame for everything evil on the planet, and I would like to see just for once, "you people" protesting the real evil regimes in the world with just a fraction of the vigor and passion you protest the most generous and free-est nation on earth. Perhaps if you did, change may be effected and war would have a better chance of being avoided.
As for name calling, that pesky moral compass of mine says that ninny isn't even in the same dimension as Nazi, hmm Matt?
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
20 Jul 2004
Yo Holly,
Some of the basic economic policies that general activist type of people (big generalization i know) might disagree with is for example our very regressive tax polices. since the late seventies the tax burden has been shiften downward so that the middle class and poor bear the overwhelming burden of taxes, while the rich reap the benefits (through "defense" spending among other things). The bush tax cuts are just another continueation of this and it doesn't help the economy, because they mainly benefit the rich and there is no guarantee that the rich will put that money back into the economy(at least US economy) in fact it is much more likely that the excess capital provided by the cuts will allow them to build further production overseas. again harmer the poorer people but very beneficial to the rich.
As for a different model, there are lots of other. even a more social-demoratic form of capitalism (like that found in many european countries) would be better. But again there are other forms of economics that have never been tried anywhere. Basically you argument could have been used to argue for feudalism or mercantalism because nothing better had existed at the time.

When you talk about having to kill our enemies you are oversimplifying the subject. The idea of two sides fighting is archaic and never actually occurs. Just to take the current incarnatoin of the "war on terror" as an example. Supposedly our enemies are some people we call "terrorists" but what do we mean by "our enemy" or they fighting "us" who is "us" To answer this the best place to go is the source. There are several easily available interviews with osama bin laden by western reporters. and in them he pretty much lays out why and who he is fighting. His main enemy is the brutal regimes within the region such as iraq, iran under the shah, israel, the saudi's etc. And that the US is a target only because the support these regimes and also (since the first gulf war) because america has a military presence in saudi arabia, which is seen as a a desecration of the most holy places in the muslim world. Now when we look at osama's actions they pretty much lead to the conclusion that these are his motives. they coincide pretty well. So maybe the answer would be to simply pull out of the region all together rather than "kill them" in order to have peace.

Finally about protesting other regimes that are evil. Well that brings up an interesting moral question. Now let us say that I have killed one person and you have killed two people. Which is more moral for me to do, to tell you to quit killing people (even though my saying that might not stop you) or stop for me to stop killing people. The latter of course because 1) the latter guarrantees that some violence will stop and 2) because one fundamental fact is that we are all morally responsible for only our own actions. Thus as citizens of the US we are all responsible for what our democratic government does, we have no moral responsibility for what others do. Thus if we are serious about make the world a better place we should focus on changing what we do instead of ranting about how evil everyone else is. Because at the end of the day ranting doesn't do anything.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
20 Jul 2004
Yo Owen,
This is fun!
OK, first, taxes. And these are the facts.
1% of the people pay roughly 38% of all taxes
5% of the people pay 50% of all taxes
10% of people pay 90% of all taxes. So your claim that the tax burden is on the shoulders of the poor is just not supportable by the facts.
As a family on the lower end of middle class, I can promise you that the Bush tax cuts have helped us enormously. Another economic fact for you -- 1 million jobs have been exported overseas, while 6 million have been imported here. When US businesses open up overseas it improves the lives, sometimes greatly of the people, and when they are forced to close down from pressure groups it is especially harmful to young girls who more often then not, are forced into prostitution.
Now Owen, come on. OBL's mission is to fight the brutal regimes of the mid-east? My Hero!! (squeal!) He and Iraq had a get along argeement, they wouldn't bother each other, and would help each other out where possible. Iran hasn't had a shah since the 70's, the mullahocracy is infinately more brutal, some in saudi support his terror, and Israel, well, it's always the Jews isn't it. Curious how the one democracy in the region is so hated.
So, if we do every thing OBL says, then he won't hate us? Then he'll leave us alone?
No, Owen. He hates us, you included, because we are infidels. Because we do not subscribe to HIS brand of extremeist religion. He is a fascist. And it IS as simple as that.
I take it that you think war is immoral under every circumstance. Is there nothing you would be willing to fight and die for?
John Stuart Mill said "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important then his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men then him self"
Sometimes it is necessary, Owen. That is just the way it is. As horrifying as it is, sometimes killing is moral.
Allow me to say one final thing about economic/social systems. Capitalism is the best system that will ever be devised, because tempered by laws, it is human nature, everything else is antithetical,and has failed in every instance.
I used to be a lefty, but after many years of citical thinking and study, I repented.
There is hope for you too Owen, come towards the light all are welcome ALL ARE WELCOME. Hehe
Thanks for hearing me out.
Peace brother.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
21 Jul 2004
Stay home w/ your rich parents so they dont have to worry about you. Where is your sense of American Pride. If you dont like it here leave. I sure your momies and daddies will pay for it.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
22 Jul 2004
poor, poor Owen. That bully Holly had to go and use facts to support her argument.

Damn her.

the defeaning silence coming from Owen's corner suggests that we may have a TKO here.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
28 Jul 2004
As an American living overseas, I can only say this:
The world is clearly NOT safer for Americans, or for anyone else!
Get that George? The world is NOT safer!!

There are now more terrorist acts worldwide every week than there once were in a year (a decade ago).
Nothing will change until America changes its foreign policy. When George W sticks out his ass and moons the world and says we don't have to abide by the Geneva Convention he doesn't make any friends. When he has the arrogance to ask the U.N. to allow American war crimes to go unpunished he incurs the world's wrath. While the U.S. stockpiles 11,000,000 landmines and refuses to sign any landmine treaties the world wonders why we need to protect our borders - tequila drunk Mexicans & crazed Canadians? A month ago the president of the Maldives sent a letter to George W asking the U.S. to reconsider its ignorance of the Kyoto Protocol and other global warming policies, because in 10 decades the Maldives (along with Kiribati and several other nations) will cease to exist. George won't even give the president of another nation the courtesy of a reply!

These are just some of the reasons why terrorists are pissed off. America has become arrogant at the expense of the rest of the world, and is doing nothing to change...

Hey Holly! 6,000,000 imported jobs? Where did you come up with that???
While 1,300,000 Americans lost jobs over the past 1+ years, 3,200,000 immigrants gained lower paying jobs in the states. The higher wage jobs lost are going overseas (or disappearing).
Get your facts straight!
WHY do 5% of the people pay 50% of the taxes? It's called unequal distribution of wealth!

There are more privately paid "employees" in Iraq than servicemen. Private industry was handed unsigned checks for this war, and the privateers
(pirateers) are cleaning up at taxpayer expense -- an average of $3480 for every family in America has funded the war -- so far!

Paul Bremer? You all thought he worked for the U.S. gov't, didn't you? He was privately employed! He was handed a check for $20 million for his helicopter and body guards, among other equally generous expenditures.
The weaponry the U.S. Army is using is so advanced, the former thieves & drug addicts the Army employs don't have the brains to be trained to maintain them. So the gov't has tens of thousands of privately employed consultants in Iraq to repair and maintain the lethal toys!

Tell me, Holly, who are the billion people the U.S. has freed?
The Grenada 17, who still linger in jail?

Sudan... a great example of American foreign policy. We supplied munitions to both the gov't and the rebels at the same time during the 80's and 90's.... Why do you think Bin Laden got pissed off at us in the first place?
We certainly did a great job of freeing people there, didn't we????

"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in."
George McGovern
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
Kierkegaard
"Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards."
Aldous Huxley
the Pirates, 'holly', and 'expat'
28 Jul 2004
the 'expat' is right - the world is not safer

the United States has freed 1 billion people?
who and where?

holly, capitalism is okay for now, but after 250-300 years, a relatively short time on this planet, it will prove to be a failed experiment and another system, not yet devised, a better system, will inevitably replace it

we call that progress
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
28 Jul 2004
Ex-Pat,
Just so you don't think I'm dodging you, I will later today answer your queries (?) accusations(?)poor misguided rantings(?) about Kyoto, land mines, Sudan, wealth redistribution, and the evils of America.
I promise to toss you a lifeline in that fetid fever swamp you are in.
But first I need to go shopping at the demon Wal-Mart, And give my first grade homeschooled son his third grade lessons.
So, stay tuned! :)
Some cool soothing logic for Ex-Pat and Hermit
28 Jul 2004
Straight fact #1:
Foreign companies employ 6 million people in the US.
Capitalistic economies are not stagnant things, in any given quarter 7-8 million jobs come and go, if they didn't, we would never have any advances. We would still be wearing button up shoes, and using switch board operators to direct every phone call we make.
I should think 5% of the people paying 50% of the taxes would make you people very happy. Stick it to the rich right? It sounds like they're paying their "fair share" to me. Am I to assume you would rather have that trillion $ burden spread out amongst the poor?
Straight fact #2:
Since the invention of LBJ's great society there has been a 6 trillion $ transfer of wealth from producers to non-producers, And the rate of "poverty" has stayed exactly the same. In fact things have gotten a whole lot worse. The almost total decimation of the intact black family, And the 75% of out of wed lock births among African Americans is one example. And no matter how hard you twist them, these are not good things.
So, the terrorists are pissed off because W. has not signed the Kyoto treaty? I don't know whether to laugh or cry a river over that statement.
Perhaps you have lived out the country of too long to remember that all treaties
Straight fact #3:
Must be ratified by the senate alone. W, or any president has nothing to do with it by matter of the US constitution.
The senate rejected the Kyoto treaty by 99-0. Included in that 99 are some of the most ultra-liberal law makers known to man.
If you wish to have a discussion of why Kyoto is bad, bad, bad, I would be more then happy to do so. BTW, has any nation besides Romania ratified, let alone implemented Kyoto? And why are the 2 biggest polluters in the world - China and India exempt? And just how is GW responsible for setting of the ice age thaw that began 10,000 years ago? Yes, yes the sinking Maldives is all the fault of the evil George Bush. Bad George, bad!
If people wish to be treated in accord with the GC's they must be part of a recognized army, wear a uniform, and carry their weapons out in the open, otherwise they are considered crimainals.
Straight fact #4:
Criminals are not covered under the GC's. This goes for bank robbers, baby rapers, embezzelers, petty thieves, and terrorists.
As for the ICC. American citizens answer to American laws an Justice, the final arbiter being the Supreme Court, any thing else would be un-constitutional.
How has the US freed a billion people in 20 years? One, thru out right warfare as in Afghanistan and Iraq, the other by external pressures, convictional courage, and never, ever bending or negotiating with
an "Evil Empire". Do you think communist Europe would have exploded otherwise?
Which brings us to terrorists. They are not fighting for the Kyoto treaty, GC's, human rights, or the Maldives. The are fighting to impose their fascist/religious world view on every single infidel on the planet (this means you !) And if you want to know what that would look like, then look at the tapes of the women in Afghanistan being beaten in the streets with a stick for the sin of laughing or showing to much eye ball. Watch Saddam's torture tapes. This is what they are fighting for. Nothing less.
The US is responsible for the massacres in the Sudan? Sweet feathery Christ are you joking? This is a nasty little race war perpetrated soley by Arab adherants of the religion of peace against the black moderate Mulims and Christians who wish not to subscribe to fascist sharia law. Period.
Just by whom was Paul Bremar employed?
The fact that you refer to the US military as populated by drug addict and thieves speakes volumes about you. It must suck to be so filled with hate, ignorance and self loathing. It discredits the argument you are feebly trying to make.
One more thing. If there were to be a better system devised then capitalism, an enterprising capitalist would have already found it.
Peace.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
31 Jul 2004
Expat and Holly seem to being saying a lot of the same things, but in different ways.
But, if I read correctly, it seems to me that Expat is a pacifist, and Holly a right winger who approves of / supports wholeheartedly, war.
I would guess that Expat supports gun control while Holly supports Charlton Heston.
Are you both against immigration? Seems that way.
Expat seems to be an old school FDR isolationist, while Holly seems to think America is right in assuming a role as the world's #1 policeman.
I would guess that Expat would have been appalled by the McCarthy witch hunts, while Holly would have said 'right on!'
Holly will vote for Bush - again.
Expat probably doesn't vote.
Holly... you seem to have a chip on your shoulder the size of Manhattan. Don't get so angry or you may explode and collapse like the WTC. Maybe one billion times (hehe).
Sudan doesn't manufacture weapons. They buy them. Mostly from the U.S., the largest arms supplier in the world. And yes, according to an Amnesty Int'l representative who spent 20+ years in Africa, the U.S. has supplied weapons to both the gov't and rebels in the Sudan - beginning back in the 80's. And yes, that is where Bin Laden was for a time.
At this time, the U.S., while not doing as much as it could do on humanitarian grounds, doesn't seem to want to keep its hands out of the political mess. Read:
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=b94d07c0851555b0
As to Afghanistan, yes the U.S. was the major player in attempting to eliminate the Taliban, but they aren't completing the job. Isn't it sad that the doctors just left because we won't keep a few troops in strategic places where they are needed so that the doctors can do their job? I guess the U.N. should be partially to blame for that one though.
Economic history:
Communism is proving to be a failed experiment.
Socialism is proving to be a failed experiment.
Capitalism, today the most efficient system, surpassing the previously mentioned 2 systems in functionality + fairness, is, as globalization encroaches and companies become more influential and larger, losing the element of fairness. Where capitalism moves into economies that previously were built on small market independence without int'l trade, the imbalance of wealth and power are notoriously unfair. I would hope that something better, something more equal, comes around. This is not done overnight. Perhaps the book by E.F. Schumacher, "Small is Beautiful," will lay the plan for the future.
On Kyoto:
No, it is not a great plan. But, the U.S. has demonstrated its unwillingness to cooperate with the rest of the world. That is what Expat was trying to show using the Maldives Presidential request as an example. The U.S. is responsible for 38% of airborne pollutants. China, while becoming a major polluter, is doing far more than the U.S. to recognize its problems and seek solutions. That doesn't mean they'll succeed, as they could become the world's largest polluter in the next decade. They are ruining southeast Asia with all the dams they are building, and if the watershed base in Tibet is understood, it is obvious that China will, through its occupation of Tibet, control the 5 largest rivers in the area. And in doing so, control the southeast Asian economy. Some 'pundits' think that future wars will be fought over water, and a review of the southeast Asian situation, particularly the Mekong region which touches 6 countries, shows that this just may come to be.
One thing you seem to miss the point on, Holly, is that the terrorists are using their religion as a basis for brainwashing their followers, primarily through their misinterpretation of the Koran, but they are fighting Kyoto, land mine treaties, the WTO, the IMF, and so on. They are fighting the incursion of these organizations and these ideologies into their societies. Where they are erring is in going after the wrong governments and the wrong people. They should be going after their own countries and their own leaders!
Holly, you point to "hate" and "self loathing" because Expat seems to think that jobless uneducated young aimless males end up in the military? I just don't get that! Many young men are given the option in our courts of enlisting in the military as opposed to a jail term. I think this is what Expat is referring to. But the numbers are probably not as substantial as Expat seems to think.
As to Paul Bremer, I'm not sure of his 'private employment,' though it's true that the U.S. gov't employs as many privately as govermentally in Iraq, and when he was assigned the Iraq post, Mr. Bremer was running a consulting firm advising on risk management around the world.
Wow! Enough!
Holly, you seem to be the only one who keeps coming back here. Get a life, babe! Get laid! After you buy your condoms at Wal Mart, that is.
As for me, well, I've got a life and have no desire to come back here to read your rebuttal, so don't bother!
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
31 Jul 2004
The analysis, tho mostly wrong, was interesting untill it degenerated at the end. I come here because I like to debate the world and politics with others who don't think the same way as I do. The posts here particularly by Owen, have been thoughtful and passionate. I like that. I like an intellectual challenge. Man (and woman) does not live by getting laid alone.
Re: Pirates Against Bush: Young Activists with Flare
31 Jul 2004
Expat and Holly seem to being saying a lot of the same things, but in different ways.
But, if I read correctly, it seems to me that Expat is a pacifist, and Holly a right winger who approves of / supports wholeheartedly, war.
I would guess that Expat supports gun control while Holly supports Charlton Heston.
Are you both against immigration? Seems that way.
Expat seems to be an old school FDR isolationist, while Holly seems to think America is right in assuming a role as the world's #1 policeman.
I would guess that Expat would have been appalled by the McCarthy witch hunts, while Holly would have said 'right on!'
Holly will vote for Bush - again.
Expat probably doesn't vote.
Holly... you seem to have a chip on your shoulder the size of Manhattan. Don't get so angry or you may explode and collapse like the WTC. Maybe one billion times (hehe).
Sudan doesn't manufacture weapons. They buy them. Mostly from the U.S., the largest arms supplier in the world. And yes, according to an Amnesty Int'l representative who spent 20+ years in Africa, the U.S. has supplied weapons to both the gov't and rebels in the Sudan - beginning back in the 80's. And yes, that is where Bin Laden was for a time.
At this time, the U.S., while not doing as much as it could do on humanitarian grounds, doesn't seem to want to keep its hands out of the political mess. Read:
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=b94d07c0851555b0
As to Afghanistan, yes the U.S. was the major player in attempting to eliminate the Taliban, but they aren't completing the job. Isn't it sad that the doctors just left because we won't keep a few troops in strategic places where they are needed so that the doctors can do their job? I guess the U.N. should be partially to blame for that one though.
Economic history:
Communism is proving to be a failed experiment.
Socialism is proving to be a failed experiment.
Capitalism, today the most efficient system, surpassing the previously mentioned 2 systems in functionality + fairness, is, as globalization encroaches and companies become more influential and larger, losing the element of fairness. Where capitalism moves into economies that previously were built on small market independence without int'l trade, the imbalance of wealth and power are notoriously unfair. I would hope that something better, something more equal, comes around. This is not done overnight. Perhaps the book by E.F. Schumacher, "Small is Beautiful," will lay the plan for the future.
On Kyoto:
No, it is not a great plan. But, the U.S. has demonstrated its unwillingness to cooperate with the rest of the world. That is what Expat was trying to show using the Maldives Presidential request as an example. The U.S. is responsible for 38% of airborne pollutants. China, while becoming a major polluter, is doing far more than the U.S. to recognize its problems and seek solutions. That doesn't mean they'll succeed, as they could become the world's largest polluter in the next decade. They are ruining southeast Asia with all the dams they are building, and if the watershed base in Tibet is understood, it is obvious that China will, through its occupation of Tibet, control the 5 largest rivers in the area. And in doing so, control the southeast Asian economy. Some 'pundits' think that future wars will be fought over water, and a review of the southeast Asian situation, particularly the Mekong region which touches 6 countries, shows that this just may come to be.
One thing you seem to miss the point on, Holly, is that the terrorists are using their religion as a basis for brainwashing their followers, primarily through their misinterpretation of the Koran, but they are fighting Kyoto, land mine treaties, the WTO, the IMF, and so on. They are fighting the incursion of these organizations and these ideologies into their societies. Where they are erring is in going after the wrong governments and the wrong people. They should be going after their own countries and their own leaders!
Holly, you point to "hate" and "self loathing" because Expat seems to think that jobless uneducated young aimless males end up in the military? I just don't get that! Many young men are given the option in our courts of enlisting in the military as opposed to a jail term. I think this is what Expat is referring to. But the numbers are probably not as substantial as Expat seems to think.
As to Paul Bremer, I'm not sure of his 'private employment,' though it's true that the U.S. gov't employs as many privately as govermentally in Iraq, and when he was assigned the Iraq post, Mr. Bremer was running a consulting firm advising on risk management around the world.
Wow! Enough!
Holly, you seem to be the only one who keeps coming back here. Get a life, babe! Get laid! After you buy your condoms at Wal Mart, that is.
As for me, well, I've got a life and have no desire to come back here to read your rebuttal, so don't bother!
for Holly
31 Jul 2004
Hi Holly,
You, Expat, Onlooker, Hermit and Owen all have interesting thoughts. Much right, some wrong, but isn't this what's great about America?
In some of the countries these people are talking about, forums like this don't exist.
Are you a member of this "Pirates against Bush" organization?
Bradley
31 Jul 2004
I am nt a member of this group. And it's the only lefty site I have found that does not ban people or expunge posts from those who do not think like them. And I think that's cool.