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Commentary :: DNC
And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
The Free Speech Zone is Bad. The cop inside peoples' heads is worse.
I've been astounded at the lack of turnout at these demonstrations. Yes the FBI came to some peoples' homes. Yes there's been people stopped. These things have happened before, and people have come out before.

I have to look at this as a part of the whole "anyone but Bush" insanity. Democrats are more angry at Nader, than they were at the Republicans who disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of Black voters. People forget that Clinton's sanctions killed more people in Iraq than Bush's war, and that his administration gave us GATT, NAFTA, WTO and the Crime Bill and Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Acts.

Yesterdays Boston Globe noted that 80% of the delegates in this convention were opposed to the war when it was declared. I don't see them getting any traction, though.

People have gotten scared to even try to dissent against the Dems, because they're so afraid of Bush. That's not healthy, and it's a lot scarier than the free speech zones.

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Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
i will be there tonight and every night this week handing out my flyers endorsing another white rich old man for prez. i'm excited and hope to pump up the delegates who seem a little disappointed that we've hadd too many women and people of color representing us. please join me in supporting john kerry, he's richer and older than Bush!
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
WELL SAID!
the "anybody but bush" people
are nothing of the sort
THEY ARE HARD LINE DEMOCRATS
who would NEVER consider
ANYBODY BUT KERRY
the lesser of two evils
simply doesnt hold water anymore
GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL.
See, we’ve got stuff for y’all
27 Jul 2004
carville-begala.jpeg
Why don’t you put down them signs and go home and watch the party on TV?
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
You're in Massachusetts. Vote for whoever you want. Remember the Electoral College! Nader is great. This country doesn't have direct democracy any more than Afghanistan does. Gore got the majority vote in 2000.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
thank you for your kind words...

i almost forgot that it's high-time we put a military man back in the white house. it has been 12 years too long. i am tired of presidents pretending they were in the military - iwant a real military man in there. so, please join me in putting an old, white, rich, military man back in the white house.

remember - women can always decorate the white house
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
Gator - nice pic of the 3 white men making fun of a white man
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
btw, don't forget to wear your white arm bands
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
I only hope the reason the turnout is so low is that everyone is saving their money and vacation time for the week of protests at the RNC. In 2000, the conventions were on opposite coasts, which might explain why the turnouts were comparable on each side. This year, the conventions are about 300 miles apart, which means they would attract many of the same people. Personally, I can't make it to both, so I am focusing on the RNC, because the RNC absolutely must be protested.

"ABB" is most definitely playing a role though in the low turnout. There is a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to the ABB position, which, if you have any Democratic friends, I am sure you are aware. People cannot seem to think past anti-Bushism. They cannot understand how important it is to be anti-war and anti-fascist, and not just anti-Bush.

Regardless of the reasons for the low turnout in Boston, however, I find it highly disappointing, just as the turnout at the G8 summit was in Georgia.

I wonder sometimes if their campaign against dissent is working. Are we all just scared? Afraid of being sent down to Guantanamo?

The turnout at the RNC will be the true test. If there is a low turnout there, you will know the hopes for democracy, peace, freedom and justice are just about dead. There goddamn better be a million in the streets of New York City.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
... if you think there's no difference between Bush and Kerry, you're fucking DELUSIONAL
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
NJ in the house!

If all goes as planned I'll be up tomorrow.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
umm... seems pretty self apparent that the vast majority of people don't agree with protesting the DNC or voting for Nader. i support your right to protest but man, listening to your rallies on Boston IMC and seeing the posts you folks are really condescending to your political allies in the Dem party. it's funny, there is no popular movement for anarchism and the only answer my fellow anarchists can come up with is more vanguardist anarchist agitation propoganda. sorry folks people need alot more than simple agitation propoganda slogans and simplistic revolutionary rhetoric. time to get an agenda.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
my agenda is to support another white rich man for prez. i live on in his neighborhood and i've met him and he has my best interests at heart.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
yes, bored, that's why local activists did the Boston Social Forum--to get an agenda, and build a movement with serious people power

however, that will take years, and is much less exciting than going toe-to-toe with the man--for those so inclined
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
It's funny to hear someone from the Kerry camp tell anarchists to "get an agenda".

So, uh, what exactly is Kerry's agenda? Because from my vantage point, he doesn't really seem to have much at all going for him other than the fact that he is not Bush. He is quite possibly the most lack-luster centrist candidate the Democrats have yet to put forward.

Where's his plan for re-establishing social welfare programs cut by both Republicans and Democrats in the past twenty years? Does he have a plan for Iraq other than send MORE young people to fight and die for oil profits? How about repealing the PATRIOT Act, which he voted in favor of? Health care? The environment? I'm sorry, why is that any so-called progressive would argue in favor of voting for this guy?

Anarchists continue to advocate, as we always have, building counter-power to the institutionalized power of the State. We believe in building popular forms of democracy in our neighborhoods and workplaces, where people have real control over their lives and are able to make decisions without the mediation of a bunch of political hacks who's interests are in maintaining an inhumane system of profits over people... and if this comes into open conflict with the forces of capitalist law and order, we are very much ready and willing to fight.

That's our agenda.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
On most of the issues I really care deeply about, Bush and Kerry are just about the same.

Both support WTO, NAFTA etc. Kerry has only said he'd look at adding the sort of labor and environmental side agreements that Clinton added to NAFTA and which have proved worthless.

Both will follow pretty much the same "stay-the-course" policy in Iraq.

Both support spending more on "defense"

Both supported the Patriot Act

Neither support any serious election reforms

Both support the same style of corporate government that we've had for the last 24 years (and maybe longer, but definitely the same since Carter)

Kerry has slightly nuanced positions that put him apparently to the left of Bush on the environment and abortion. But you can expect the same phony concern for the environment that Clinton had. Basically more of the sort of deals Clinton made with the loggers in the NW ... looks good on the surface, but gives the destroyers what they want.

Remember, Clinton pushed through Republican ideas (WTO, NAFTA, Welfare Reform, etc) that Reagan \ Bush 41 couldn't pass. Kerry will be the vehicle to continue what Bush 43 is doing, now that a popular revolt is threatening to stop Bush. Kerry will be the kindler, gentler face that gets the corporations just what they want.
At Home
27 Jul 2004
A lot of conversations happened a few years ago about how we need to act at a local level. This meant local rallies, but now in many places former protest organizers have become community organizers.

I am frustrated that more people did not turn out at G8 (even as I could not make it), because it was a Global Day of Action. But in Europe, many protest organizers' frustration with street parties that are kind of repetitive has led to this attrition.

I think street protesting in US might have peaked for a while. It will probably swell again in a few years, with organized communities or with a new crop of students and coalitions.
At Home
27 Jul 2004
A lot of conversations happened a few years ago about how we need to act at a local level. This meant local rallies, but now in many places former protest organizers have become community organizers.

I am frustrated that more people did not turn out at G8 (even as I could not make it), because it was a Global Day of Action. But in Europe, many protest organizers' frustration with street parties that are kind of repetitive has led to this attrition.

I think street protesting in US might have peaked for a while. It will probably swell again in a few years, with organized communities or with a new crop of students and coalitions.
I wish people would stop moaning about the G8,
27 Jul 2004
It’s ridiculous. They help the summit on Slave Island, Georgia! Which has been “developed” into one big gated island for the rich. It’s between Jacksonville and Savanna, both solid strongholds of Anti-Globalism/Anti-Capitalist movement. Have you ever even been to Savanna or Charleston? They give the term conservative a whole new meaning.
The big disaster this year was the annual anti-IMF/World Bank demonstration. Which was coopted and smothered by the liberal Democratic Party machine. The March for Women's Lives with Mad Madeline Albright, just to make sure the street rabble got the message. If there is a problem with turn out in Boston it has to do with what has been stated above, outrageous security and undermining liberals.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
untitled sea.bmp
Remember that the mayhem that happened at the 68 convention was done by only few hundred people determined to
bring the war home. Destiny is in your hands.

Kerry’s going to lose, because lefties aren’t going to vote for a pro-war, Reagan Democrat.
Blacks aren’t going to turnout for super whitie.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
Ashcroft. Rice. Cheney. Rumsfeld.

... want four more years of that shit?
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
In case anyone gives a damn, here's my take on why there haven't been any major protests in Bosotn: the RNC in New York has a higher profile and is bleeding recources, time and energy from the DNC in Boston. For instance, out here in San Francisco, there are lots of groups busy planning, here, for trips to New York--*as* the Dems convene in Boston. Few of us can dedicate the time, money and energy needed to make two 3,000 mile, days-long round trips within a couple of months' time.
Dem Loyalists In UJP Blocked Anti-War Mobilization.
27 Jul 2004
Major reason for relatively small turnout of anti-war protesters: In early February 2004, local leadership of Boston's United for Justice & Peace group (who are Democratic Party Loyalists embedded within the local Boston anti-war movement) decided, for politically opportunistic reasons, to block grassroots local anti-war activist attempts to mobilize New England and national anti-war protesters from confronting the DNC leadership over its decision to nominate a candidate, "Skull & Bones" Kerry who failed to resist the Viet Nam war in the 1960s, voted to support both Plan Colombia and the War in Iraq, and supports construction of the Sharon regime's land-grabbing/Apartheid Wall in the occupied West Bank of Palestine. Until the Democratic Party loyalists who manage the Boston area's UJP group chose not to organize a national protest against the DNC's complicity with the U.S. war machine in February, UJP people in NYC had actually originally endorsed the idea of a national anti-war mobilization against both the DNC and the RNC warmakers responsible for the current era of "permanent war" in the world. At the last minute, local Boston UJP/Democratic Party Loyalist leaders did throw together a few token anti-war protest events. But to really bring large numbers of anti-war demonstrators to protest at a DNC or RNC, has always meant at least 6 months of organizing around the country and contacting peace groups in every U.S. city, which local Boston UJP leaders refused to do, since they're apparently mostly Democratic Party loyalists masquerading as "anti-war activists".
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
Protesting the DNC? fuckin christ. You sorry bastards need hobbies or something, eh? Hey you sorry slogan-chanting losers! In a month you'll have something REAL to complain about. See your sorry asses in NY. YA self-righteous pretentious losers. Who the fuck did the "freedom democrats" from mississippi fall in with in 64 to shit on goldwater and the southern crooks? Answer: the democrats. Sure, some of them are stiffs, cultured yuppies, and ordinarily not people that i'd bother to sit down to dinner with. But then again, neither are most americans. We're a minority you idiots. I'm not about to do campaign work on their behalf, but I'm certainly not going to stroke my own activist ego by protesting them. Yall are a bunch of fucking suckers, and I think most of america views you as such. Wait til NYC on the cusp of late august and then you'll have something real to protest. Meanwhile, find something to do with your over-abundance of time. maybe go to the library of build a card house or something and stop waving your self-righteous flags of political hokny bullshit.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
27 Jul 2004
In case anyone gives a damn, here's my take on why there haven't been any major protests in Bosotn: the RNC in New York has a higher profile and is bleeding recources, time and energy from the DNC in Boston. For instance, out here in San Francisco, there are lots of groups busy planning, here, for trips to New York--*as* the Dems convene in Boston. Few of us can dedicate the time, money and energy needed to make two 3,000 mile, days-long round trips within a couple of months' time.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
i found out tonight that white men from utah agree with me that kerry is the best! one guy got right in my face even though i agreed with him. he even head-butted me - all because he said there was a reason i'd never be half the white man he is. but, i agreed with him, yet he was still very angry.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
I'm an anarchist... and I'm going to bite my tongue for a few months and (sigh) cast my vote for Kerry/Edwards. Why? I don't believe that electoral politics will solve much, if anything, it's up to us to do it directly. I just want a President who'll leave me the fuck alone and let us continue to organize in our communities. With Ashcroft out I think our activist communities will be bothered significantly less than they are now. Yes, Kerry did vote for the Patriot Act, but so did most of our Congresspeople. He does want to eliminate some of the most invasive parts, like sneak and peek searches and investigating the books we check out at the library. I just feel that with Kerry, he'll fuck with us less.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
thanks for the support, assholes.

no seriously. You'd be whining if you spent all year working on something you cared about and no one came out because everyone fell into the "ABB" pussy mentality.

Are you liberals or radicals?

the reason no one's been at the pen or any protests in the soft zone is because the major organizing against the DNC is calling only for decentralized actions. Let's face it folks, the black bloc is no longer effect. they expect it. they know how to get us no matter what in a centralized situation.

I don't know about you, but I'm not going near that protest pen. I refuse to have my free speech caged.

and for all you people who are anyone but bush, fuck you. Get out of my movement and don't ask for my solidarity.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
the bazaar today had a pretty good turnout. also, those organizing the "protests" have decided, with good reason, that we don't want to do centralized actions. we don't believe in centralized politics, and this isn't seattle in 1999. the black bloc isn't going to be effective at an event like this, and frankly, at this point, it's kind of expected.

also, i feel that people deciding, en masse, to only go to the rnc shows a lack of basic solidarity.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
As a communist I must wonder how many "anarchist" like shame-on-me are out there? I can only hope that a majority of you who consider yourselves anarchists are sickened by shame-on-me's post (our congressmen?!). Do illusions in capitalsit democracy lives strong in the anarchist left? For a revelutionary perspective on if Kerry will "fuck with us less" check out “War on Terror” Targets Everyone.

http://www.icl-fi.org/ENGLISH/2004/War%20on%20Terror-827.htm
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
Can you do a little more race baiting there riboflav?

Riboflav is actually probably some middle class white kid who listened to too much rap music.

After all his message appears to be that if the democratic party ran a guy with black skin he would vote for him.

"Hey, that guy has the same skin as me! I bet if I vote for him he'll look out for my interests!"

Ya, good plan.
Kerry, what is he good for? Absolutely nothing
28 Jul 2004
Joey, you’re so full of “hokny”.(is that some local Boston term?) So, you actually have to go back to the 60’s to find some justification for voting for Kerry. You sound a just like the Kerry Campaign.
Who is this we that’s in the minority? You’re not selling that establishment bullshit, that this is a conservative country.
Did you know that most people want job security, decent wages, workers rights, maternal leave, dependable (or any) heath care. They also want social security and a reliable safety net. They want affordable housing, good schools, a clean environment….. Are any of these issues and all the rest I’ve left out, on the agenda? Hell no! Because both parties believe strongly in never giving suckers a break –it’s bad for their economy. That’s the major reason most people don’t vote, they know it’s useless, they know the systems fixed. What if they did started voting? What a poll tax, massive voting fraud? Both have been done to keep people in their place. It takes the combined collusion of both parties and the media, working round the clock seven days a week to maintain the working order, legitimacy and justification for this system.
So what will change, (just for augments sake, he’s going to lose) if Kerry is sworn in on that cold day in January next year with Republicans in control of both houses and the majority of his own party Reagan or at best Rockefeller Democrats? Absolutely nothing.
You and your liberal chums are just wasting the time and energy of this movement for absolutely nothing.

Kerry
What is he good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
Kerry
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing

I said Kerry, Huh!
Good god y’all
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Lounge/Q_20184131.html
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
bah has it right on. i am a white wealthy man from john kerry's neighborhood and although i've never listened to rap music i do believe that it represents the views of all black people everywhere. he is right - if we can just elect a black woman then we can go back to sleep and rest easy for our work will be done.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
btw, bah, would you feel more comfortable if i were black? would you just give me a pat on the back and say good job "brother!"

well, lesson learned. i, as a white man, will now shut up and continue to vote for other white men as it has worked for over 200 years in this country. keep it up white men!!!! 200 years and look how we're bringing the black people along.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
The Bl(a)ck Tea Society are a bunch of pussies....The Democrats ( the mayor of Boston being one) are GREAT...They gave us that prison / "free speech zone" for us to voice are dissent in..At least the Republicans kiss you before they fuck you...
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
let's tell everyone why they are so fucked up and shout everyone that doesn't agree with us down. Yaeh, we are the elite that knows the shining path to revolution, let us tell you want to do. submit to our revolutionary rhetoric. We know everything and no one else has any other good ideas besides our own. We are the revolutionary vanguard that has led to such a great revolutionary opposition movement that we can get 300 people to go to a protest. Follow us, we will lead you to victory just like we have been since the '20s. Ur... wait maybe we need to think about what we are doing, doesn't seem like we are having much of an affect.

wait, look, maybe those eco-anarchists have a better way...

no, sorry, I was just being stupid, I forgot that I know the true path to the revolution and to hell with everyone else and I don't care if only 200 people show up for it.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
Anybody But Bush. Last I checked Badnarik isn't Bush. Neither is Nader or Cobb.

There is no way in hell that I will vote for someone who voted for NAFTA, GATT, the Patriot Act, the War, and gun grabs. The constitution is sacred. And now we have these no Free Speech zones in place by both major parties.

You Kerry people can try and spin it all they want, but his voting record signs though. It absolutely sucks.

And while Ashcroft will be gone, it was Janet Reno who torched Waco.

The hell with both of them. I'm voting Badnarik.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
There were far fewer people who showed up at the G8 in Brunswick and the level of armiment, harassment & repression was 10 times what I've seen here.

There were 3 FULL days of marches, direct actions, and creative dissent.

This is weak, I'm going home.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
Simple, really. Most regional anti-war and social justice coalitions in the country are divided on the ABB question. It was far easier to agree to prioritize the RNC than to debate and resolve their internal disputes - or risk a split -around a more active role at the DNC.

The same process is unfolding in both UPFJ and NION - two national coalitions mobilizing big time for the RNC. The largest,UFPJ, which IMO, should have called for a major national anti-war convergence to hold Kerry and the DNC's feet to the fire around Iraq during the Convention, ala Chicago 68, but instead elected to sponsor "people's parties" and hobnob at the Boston Social Forumn in order to avoid pissing off their major donors and political allies - ngos, union leaders, foundations, and liberal DP politicians.

ANSWER, (aside from the rampant criticisms of Stalinism of the WWP and undemocratic process which IMC readers are well aware )has indeed, taken a 'plague on both your houses' approach to the pro-war corporate parties, but has been rattled by the internal split in the Worker's World Pary, and unable to mobilize beyond the immediate New England and NYC area -- hence the modest numbers for their march.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
comrades, anarchists do not vote... our sole duty
this election is to incite popular revolution and
change all of our lives immediately and directly
...but we can do this anytime; as for the dnc/rnc
being protested....come on...we all know that
we need to dope their fruit punch with acid right?
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
Decentralized actions don't mean invisible, -- which these actions have been - even to the
the anarchist and alternative press

It's true that Boston isn't Seattle, this isn't 1999, but BTS organizers clearly overestimated the degree of appeal or momentum their vision for DNC protests would create or the willingness of out of town activists - many who are also concentrating on local work - to mobilize scant resources to support actions with little focus beyond validating the decentralized model and doing general anti-capitalist agitation. Raising the issue of the Iraq war in the streets, and Kerry and the DNC's support for a prowar, anti-civil liberties agenda took second billing to this, insuring that any actions would be marginalized, but politically pure.

For all his warts, Ralph Nader's plan to crash the convention will probably garner more attention, and expose the reactionary role of the Democratic Party.

And kudos to those street theatre participants
who bucked the consensus to stay out of Boston's protest pit under any circumstances and instead, walked in with hoods on their heads, invoking images of Abu Ghraib and Camp X-Ray.

For a brief moment, they were able to turn
the tables on the State's efforts to intimidate dissent. Abbie Hoffman would have been proud.
This is Boston
28 Jul 2004
We created activism, if you think some fly by night convention is going to defeat us, then dream on. We were out today in the thousands. Maybe you liberal losers don’t know what they are dealing with? This is the most Intelligent, well read and political savvy city in the USA. We have four hundred years of political heritage.
This isn’t Seattle in the magical year of 1999, don’t make me laugh.
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
Yep. Roughly three thousand, if you count the bike cops. Leave the bravado, spin and hype to the capitalist press. Fortunately, things seem to be shaping up better in NY.
Bullshit
28 Jul 2004
on a working day, under this pressure and oppression What other city even in the hotbeds of Europe? This is phenomenal, this is Boston.
You can jump off the Brooklyn Bridge!
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
In the words of the brilliant Eugene Debs:

“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it, than for what I don’t want and get it.”

The ABB mentality is exactly what's been fucking this "democracy" since the beginning. Keep settling for this shit and it's what you're gonna keep getting. For those Kerry supporters thinking dreamily back to the "liberal" Clinton wonder years, remember that this Democrat fucked us with Nafta, WTO, the vicious welfare reforms, cuts on social services, attack on unions etc. Kerry is just another corporate whore that will continue the same type of policies.

I'm voting (even if I have to write it in) Bill Van Auken from the Socialist Equality Party. At least he offers a platform that is truly left.

The duocracy has to end!
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
I wholeheartedly agree! I was up in Boston yesterday wondering where the dissent was. The Really Really Democratic Bazaar was awesome in some ways, and disappointing in others. Some groups and individuals who were not causing problems (just voicing alternate viewpoints) were made to feel unwelcome by those who claimed that this was an inclusive event. If this event was cast as inclusive only of other anarchists, then I would have no problem with this...but to claim this as a democratic festival, and then cop an attitude is crap. As someone who is more in line with anarchism than socialism or communism, for instance, I was let down. On the other hand, it was great to see a peaceful event that provided entertainment and education.

All I've been reading about the past few days have been accounts of a near-Gulag in Boston. I wonder if the activists are posting these, or if it is the feds in an attempt to discourage rabblerousers from making there way to the city. Yes there was a police presence. I was not once detained or searched. The cops I spoke with were wondering themselves why so many were on duty. I'm not exactly a fan of the legal system, but my experience was surprisingly positive yesterday. I think that needs to be voiced. I came to the city under the impression that tear gas would likely be flowing by the end of the day...and I left in one piece. Don't let the media frenzy in the mainstream news or independent news make you believe that Boston is under lockdown and unsafe for dissenters. The roads were navigable (but I am a native New Englander, so crazy driving is the norm).
Re: And where are the demonstrators...
28 Jul 2004
I have been lurking on here for a couple days keeping up with the latest news and just wanted to chime in the obvious here. This thread is absolutely filled with people coming here saying the exact same thing, your stupid for protesting the democrats but ill see you in nyc. This makes it obvious there is an effort probably from a couple lone democrats or a democratic website to skew this thread. Just pointing it out so you dont keep arguing with dumb democrats over and over.