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Commentary :: Human Rights
No More Police Violence!
21 Oct 2004
...as the tragic events of October 20 have made clear, there is no shelter from police violence. The actions of the individual cannot control the actions of the police.
It is an overbearing threat that we live with every day. We all know that it may happen at any given time. We comfort ourselves by perpetuating the myth that we can control our own destiny. We convince ourselves that we can control the risk level that we engage in. Unfortunately for Victoria Snelgrove, the truth is all too real.

On the night of October 20, 2004 after the Boston Red Sox defeated the New York Yankees in a forced game seven, this young college student and aspiring journalist was viciously gunned down by the paramilitary thugs of the Boston Police Department.

We have seen this happen before. We have seen the Pigs gun down our children on the streets of Dorchester. We have seen them shoot our neighbors in the back and then claim self-defense. We have even seen them shoot into the windows of a moving vehicle in Roxbury and take the life of a young mother-to-be. This latest example of police violence is different however. It is different because Victoria Snelgrove was murdered with a "less-than-lethal" weapon.

Victoria Snelgrove was gunned down by a beanbag-loaded shotgun blast to the head. The violent thug behind the trigger chose to ignore the manufacturer's specific instructions not to engage in headshots. Perhaps this is just another example of police ignorance. More likely however, the shot was fired deliberately in a violent rage. Testosterone flowed through the veins of this cowardly assassin as he chose to show the world the true colors of the boys in blue.

The death of Victoria Snelgrove is anything but fair. She was a student, not an activist. She was not protesting the horrors of war or the terrorism of the state. She was simply enjoying life; taking in the festive scene after an emotionally charged baseball game. Victoria Snelgrove was not a martyr, however her name does belong alongside Carlo Guiliani, Rachel Corrie, and the countless other nameless victims who have fallen before the never-ending violence of the state.

What does this mean now? Police Commissioner Kathleen O’Toole, in a live press conference accepted full responsibility, on behalf of the department, for the death of Victoria Snelgrove, however she also insisted that the police had not used excessive force. The murderer will go unpunished and the city will soon forget the tragedy as their team advances into the World Series. Most importantly, the "less-than-lethal" weapon will not be recalled, and police tactics will not change.

This is a reminder the next time you find yourself in the street facing the enemy. State terrorism and police violence remain constant threats to our daily existence. Although the risk of police violence is generally elevated in political protest situations, as the tragic events of October 20 have made clear, there is no shelter from police violence. The actions of the individual cannot control the actions of the police.

The Struggle Continues...

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Re: No More Police Violence!
21 Oct 2004
incredibly well written
Re: No More Police Violence!
21 Oct 2004
*as in well spoken, couldn't care less about grammer
Re: No More Police Violence!
22 Oct 2004
It's weird how people keep defending this girl by saying things like "She was not protesting the horrors of war or the terrorism of the state," as if then there would be a reason for her to die. Don't forget folks, We have a right to free speech and assembly!

Whats interesting is that these are the methods the police have been developing to deal with anti-globalization protestors for the past five years and now they have been used on sports fans, and an innocent bystander was killed as a result.

Suddenly a much wider audience is contemplating what it is like to be on the bad end of a riot cop's non-lethal weapon.

A good thing to repeat over and over might be "if people would have stood up for the protestor's right to assemble instead of looking the other way while their taxes went to violent crowd control weaponry then maybe this wouldnt have happened."

The useful thing is to come out against the use of the weapons and tactics. It's safer for the police to let these things run their course. Lives are more valuable than SUV's.
Re: No More Police Violence!
22 Oct 2004
The sox fans don't deserve a world championship. Shame on you Boston.....
Re: No More Police Violence!
22 Oct 2004
The police had absolutely no right to fire anything into that crowd. The cops and the city administration that fosters and encourages this kind of cowardly fascist response to a rowdy group of sports revelers are completely to blame.
Re: No More Police Violence!
22 Oct 2004
The city and police werent going to stand to the side and watch the riot. Its the weapons that are the issue. The police accepted the blame and to keep attacking them is just hurting our case for getting these weapons out of their hands
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
"paramilitary thugs?" "pigs?" "violent thugs?"...
gee I hope the reactionary asshole that wrote this piece of drivel never needs "the thugs" to come to his/her aid if they need salvation froma rapist murderer etc.
When cops murder Women.
23 Oct 2004
douche bag cops with the brains of a squirrel fire weapons at head and eye level. Every kid in America and probably the world knows to not fire so much as an ELASTIC band at head level.

Asshole cops making 90K a year from our paycheck tax dollars with overtime murder our children then claim they take responsibility "sweep it under the rug".

Jack-ass cops confuse their tiny penuises for their shiny new guns and kill young women in the streets of boston so the mayor can avoid embarassing headlines that spontaneous street party took place in "his" city.

The cops wonder why they are thought of as below IRS agents and above pedophiles...... these muscle head sadist cops will never get it.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
No offence, i very much understand the tragedy at hand, i was even a part of the Herald apologizing for the pictures they published of her in the Boston Herald. However, i was also in that riot, unintentionally, just observing the events, and i honestly dont believe police violence was at hand. if you had seen the crowd, and how people reacted, you would understand why this happened. I mean, if there hadnt been police there, things would have been much worse. And yes, she was at the wrong place at the wrong time, you have to understand though, that people were just out of control, and in order to keep people safe, drastic measure needed to be taken. Unfortinatly, the mace balls are not intended to be shot at people in the heads, and it was a mistake, and just because it was a mistake does not mean it was police violance. It was riot violance, and it needed to be taken care of.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
Get a grip. It is a tragedy, yes, but the fault is with the rowdy celebrants. You people are always quick to judge the police, however, you are the first to cry for help when you are in trouble. Blame the ones that started the riot, not the cops. What point is it to burn cars or overturn them. Why cant you celebrate in a civil manner. My deepest sympathy goes out to the victim.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
The death of this young womens is certainly tragic. I feel for her loved ones that now must bear this burden.

With that said, the context of this article and the follow on respones are absurd and franky, it borders on ignorance.

To lable the police as murderous thugs is a denial of the state of affairs in the world in which we live. Yes, she was innocent, but our police do not have the luxury making this distinction. These are the same police that could some day come to your aid when you are the victim of the ever increasing violence in the world.

The weapon in question was designed to be used in this very scenario. The police are in a situation where they are outnumbered by 100 to 1. The so called fans in this situation pose a serious threat to the safety and security of the police whose sole purpose is to maintain order. It is these people that are ultimately to blame for this trajedy.

Two sets of families will be devestated by this incident. That of the young women and that of the police officer who fired the fatal shot. This officer is human. Not one of the officers began this night with the intent of killing a human being. They were presented with a threat, percievied or real and they acted within the scope of their duties. This officesr life will also be forever changed as a result.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
The same weapons were used against kids at a concert in Hartford, Ct injuring students- two kids even lost sight. Police have been using these less lethal (still lethal) more and more with non-protestor, "regular citizens" which is scary that they are now using them on mainstream people as well
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
To apply to be a boston police officer

-U.S. Citizen
-At least 19 years of age
-Possess a H.S diploma or have a G.E.D
-Possess a valid drivers license

-With all the emphasis on needing a college education to advance in life, why is it that to enforce the law so little education is needed.

-I do respect the law enforcement officers and the every day dangers they have to deal with, I only question the methods of training in which they have been taught to deal with specific situations.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
So what you are saying is that sport fans should just be allowed to destroy property and light cars on fire to celebrate?
It's this same mentality of seeing anyone in uniform or simple laws as the enemy, that's what starts these riots in the first place.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
I feel really badly that she was killed, when she was an innocent by-stander.

However, I strongly disagree with your commentary. Describing police as "paramilitary thugs" is extreme. They do their job. They do a job that I would never even think to try to do. Most people go into work everyday worrying about how they are going to wake up, or keep themselves from getting too bored throughout the day. These police go into work everyday and the wonder whether or not they will come back home alive. And you call them "constant threats to our daily existance." I think that you should take a look at your commentary. You suggest that having police is detrimental to the welfare of our society? I'd like to know how you think that that riot should've been dealt with. Should they have let it go, and have it escalate into people being killed by the rioters? I suppose you'll say that the police should've used non-lethal weapons. That's what they did. They did the best that they could do under the circumstances, and an accident happened. I strongly dislike the way in which you trivialize the fact that they themselves put their lives on the line every day. Police are only violent because society charges them with the task of protecting us from the worst people that our in our ranks, and when an accident happens, you are the first to denounce them as cold-blooded murderers. Accidents happen. No-one likes them. Measures should be taken to make sure they don't happen. However, the use of such a vile rhetoric against people who are only trying to fulfill the tasks that are mandated by their job, which includes the ultimate risk for them, is very extreme.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
It is disheartening to read some of the comments. It is people like those protecting the police and blaming the victims that have given such power to state to misuse it. When one lives in a police state every action of police and state is justifed as it is for "our own good." All tyrants in history have relied on people's blind obedience to police and state is always right to control them.

Rowdy sports fan crowds are just a mini example of nationalism, never any good and a strategy to pump up idiotic differences to a height where you treat people living in next state as your enemies and then it spreads to other countries. Such imbecile behavior is always shameful and now the shame of an innocent losing her life as have others in such idiotic displays. The sad things is the people who were doing such rowdy displays of regionalism usually are also people who will support police states and start thumping their chests for nationalism too.

The logic of Whomprat is baffling to me, according to this person her death was not fair because she was not an activist protesting war, does this mean an activist's death is fair?

Also, such apologetic response from the police is far more than any activist ever gets, does this say that sports fans lives are more cherished than activists and those who fight against this very kind of injustice? It is like media and Rachel Corrie, unlike the palestinians who die everyday her life was more of a horrendous event, similarly for all the black kids shot violently by the police everyday, a white sports fan's life is much cherished, this is not to say that her life or racheal corrie's life is not important but i wish such media frenzy can be seen for others who have died at the hands of such violence fighting against such brutality.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
Only a paranoid mind can consider Victoria Snelgrove's accidental death to be a murder.

Police sometimes overreact. Police are sometimes abusive. Police need to be held accountable for their actions within the proper context.

Ridiculous and immature rantings about 'paramilitary thugs' and melodramatic silliness about 'the struggle continues' is completely counterproductive to curbing police abusive behavior.

Grow up, Whomprat.
lives on the line?
23 Oct 2004
According to the CDC's study of fatal injuries in 2000, "By occupation, the largest number of fatalities occurred among truck drivers, farm occupations, sales occupations, and construction laborers" ( http://www2.cdc.gov/chartbook/chap2/chartbk2.htm ).
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
Here is an account from yesterday's Boston Herald
------------------------------
Boston Herald:

‘Situation was dire’: Eyewitness details fatal Fenway riot
By Dave Wedge
Friday, October 22, 2004

Perched on a cement parking deck on Lansdowne Street early yesterday, I
watched a tragedy unfold.


As an unwitting Victoria Snelgrove stood by a sausage cart with
friends, six police officers on horseback and a handful of riot cops became
surrounded by a surging - and increasingly hostile - mob of Red Sox
revelers. Despite scattered fires, vandalism, a few scuffles and some
arrests, the scene was relatively under control for a while.


But things took a deadly turn after a heated exchange between a mounted
officer and a surly young man in a gray knit cap. After he refused the cop's
orders to leave the area, the officer, from his horse, grabbed the man from
the back of his shirt and tossed him to the ground.


The man got up and began hurling obscenities and making obscene
gestures at the furious cop. Tensions quickly rose. Some in the crowd tossed
bottles at police while the horses began getting out of control. Riot cops
moved in and started forcefully moving people from the area.


At one point, I saw an officer toting a compressed air gun fire at
least one round into the crowd. A split second later, the 21-year-old
Emerson College journalism major was lying on the sidewalk, blood streaming
from her face.


Standing directly above the scene, I watched her friends softly caress
her head as she drifted in and out of consciousness. One felt for her pulse.
Some in the crowd began screaming for an ambulance. Another cried, ``Call
911.''


At first glance, she seemed just a minor casualty in the foolish clash
between drunken knuckleheads and police trying to reign in the chaos. But it
soon became obvious the situation was dire. After about five minutes, an
ambulance carved a swath through the crowd and the dying student was taken
away on a stretcher.


Today, she's in a funeral home.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
My daughter lives in the apartments where the riots took place. She was afraid they were going to set it on fire or worse yet, break into her apartment. Its too bad Victoria was hit and killed, I would rather see the morons jumping on the car lying in their own pool of blood. As the old saying goes you play, you pay. And by the way, Whompat needs to move to Russia and discover real state terrorism, or at least start medication immediately.
Good Cop Bad Cop
23 Oct 2004
I've heard so many stories of stupid cops literally getting away with murder that I've grown numb to them. I read a story about a Dallas cop gunning down a gorilla that made an escape from its prison. You wonder why it wasn't tranquilized rather than shot dead. Reason: someone called the cops. Result: Scared officer shoots freedom seeking gorilla dead. Who's to blame for this idiocy? The police? The zoo? Gun manufacturers? I say the zoo is to blame because they should of had somekind of plan to deal with such an occurance because they had to know if they didn't deal with a loose animal quickly the police would. And if the police are involved you know they'll shoot anything that poses the slightest threat. The moral of this story is one should always think twice before calling the police, please!
This poor college student was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and was fatally wound by a non-lethal projectile. Non-lethal weapons can be lethal when being used by nincompoop. In the future I hope the Boston Police refrain from putting their nincompoops on crowd control. Or at least keep non-lethal weapons out of their hands.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
"Get a grip?" Fuck you, you fucking heartless son of a bitch. What if that was your sister? You right-wing bastards have no empathy with people who are not you. Just like you say the Iraqis have it coming when US warplanes kill dozens at a wedding party, you say this young woman had it coming when the police shoot her in the face. I hope you are on the receiving end of police violence some day. I wonder if you will still make excuses for these despicable pigs.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
You do not have enough guts to publish your email address with your lengthy diatribe. You do not have enough thoughtfulness to use correct grammar. You do not have enough respect to converse in a civilized manner. You do not have enough self-control to control your emotions.

You will probably be involved in one of these gutless, thoughtless, disrespectful, uncivilized riots and will demonstrate your lack of self control. And then we will thank the police for controlling you, and you might be hurt.

"Curb your tongue knave."
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
ok, they said she was not even involved, ok cool. so now you blame the police, hmmm ok. but how about the individuals that started the riot. oh now i see, the individuals who started the riot are blaming the police for this innocent young ladies death. folks watch out. the day is coming when the police dont carry just the standard side arm. they day is coming when it really is going to be paramilitary. pepperball guns, huh thats light compared to what will one day come down the line for american law enforcement. be glad we have defenders on the streets that have these weapons, yes i said weapons because thats what they are, and be glad they care enough about you and me to defend our way of life. if you werent free you would be complaining about something else. my only complaint is, you that do complain smoked too much crack and lsd in your younger years. i think you need some therapy.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
"why is it that to enforce the law so little education is needed."

A cop has to be smart enough to understand his orders, but not smart enough to question them. The same goes for military.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
By contrast, the judge has to be smart enough to lay down an abstract legal interpretation but not dumb enough to understand the daily interaction of matter.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
I think its disgusting that a lot of you people think the cops are justified in using improper techniques in terms of crowd control. A line of riot cops marching through w/batons was enough to scatter these kids like running through a flock of pigeons. There was NO reason for the use of pepperspray balls/rubber bullets/bean bag bullets, etc.

Ideally, I personally would love to see us policing ourselves, but we don't live in that world and thus we need to call out actions by the police that are highly questionable.

Do people really understand that these weapons are meant to be shot at the ground and not directly at people? I bet if you did some research on non-lethal and less lethal weapons, you'd realize there was in no doubt imroper usage of these weapons.

Was your SUV being saved worth the death of an innocent bystander? I also think its disgusting that a lot of you are more concerned with material things that can be rebought (and insurance often covers) over human lives that well, once gone will never come back.

"I would much rather see those kids jumping on cars lying in a pool of blood" jumping on the hoods of cars is not punishable by death, ever. Flipping a car over? Unless someone was inside then its just mindless property destruction that will be covered by insurance and no one was harmed in the process. If no one is physically harmed, there is no punishment by death.

A bottle being tossed at the cops? Ok, that can be a serious issue, but no one knew where it came from, not everyone was doing it and these dudes were in protective vests and other gear. A line of riot cops with batons would have been much more effective since it proved so in other parts of the area.

and even if they were justified in the end in using these weapons, like say someone threatened the cops with a knife or a gun, they were still misused. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO SHOOT DIRECTLY AT THE CROWD OR SHOOT DIRECTLY AT PEOPLE'S HEADS. You're supposed to fire the bullets off the ground or in the case of bean bags, you're supposed to aim for the lower body.

And now on the subject of "she shouldn't have been there in the first place" it was a celebration, this was a historical moment. She had every right to be buying a hot dog from some vendor on landsdowne with her friends. She had every right in the world to celebrate with people, to high-five, hug, cheer. It was an incredibly positive experience to see all these kids who would never interact with each other coming together and celebrating, and it wasn't just college students, there were a LOT of older folks there as well. The cops didn't tell everyone to leave, they told people to move aside so they can get through. If the cops wanted everyone to leave right away, they would have been there blocking the place off before the celebration happened.

This was an accident, but accidents are preventable and people SHOULD say something to prevent this from happening again. The improper use of non-lethal weapons have proven ironically lethal before and it will keep happening until we speak out instead of sitting on our asses and blaming the victims.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
Whomprat must be a criminal to hate cops so much. My sympathy to the Snelgrove family.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
I'm sorry for the Snelgrove family
and I'm sad because in many pictures
I've seen many police officers pointing
their peper spay guns at peoples heads.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
To Mr. Law,
Have you heard of the saying "when thinking is criminalized, only the criminals can think" so Whomprat or those who have been critical thinkers and not just blind followers of state sanctioned terrorism in the form of police or army are called criminals and people are like are part of what the state machinery depends on. Had there been not people like you to support hitler's police and army, he would have never gained such strenght.

Those who have watched how various tyrannts have risen to power, it is by the use of these institutions and people's support of it until it comes to attack them. Again, the famous poem, first they came to get communist and i did not do anything because i was not one..... then they came to get me and by then there was no one left to protect me" it is the same thinking as Mr. Law and various others who think that if someone is attacked they are criminals, if someone is against police and army branches of govt's tryanny, they must be criminals, govt's is always good and works for us. Wake up, politicians and the systems they rely on have no interest in your life just improving their own. Yes, all police people may not realize how they participate in such larger plans just as people like Mr. Law does not, just like those who did not stop nazis before they became strong did not but that is not an excuse in history.

Even the police is admitting that is it their fault and the police who fired did not engage in prescribed crowd control mechanism but that is not enough for people who want to always side with power against defenseless. People do not have the same responsiblity as someone with a gun and a job to protect. Police is trained people are not.

Americans and many others are so brainwashed into thinking that state sanctioned violence is ok and must be for some good reason so they can justify killing of people in a riot or war but if one person committs the same act, it is terrorism. State sanctioned violence is far more criminal and harmful than any person or unofficial group's since the whole country does not endorse it.

Nothing justifies police violence or army violence against innocent unarmed civilians or against resistance fighthers.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
making comments about grammar and other irrelevant issues instead of focusing on a serious issue like state violence is imbecile or a strategy to divert the attention.

And for those who are defending the police in this case may need to do some research on how often these "accidents" happen against blacks, other minorities and poor. And recently Bush and Ashcroft, police and army has gained even more permission to be trigger happy and reckless since we can always throw the word "terrorism" and make people stop thinking, a strategy that has been used numerous times before and has been just as successful.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
This is another example of rogue police officers who can't wait to pull the trigger. A majority of police officers today couldn't pass a psychological test if it were required before taking their roles. This man, just as Lon Horiuchi, a FBI sniper who has murdered many unnecesarily, should not be in his position, and rather should be prosecuted for murder.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
Darned if they do and darned if they don't. Without our police men, Anarchy would rule..Not a pretty picture.The days of calling the Police should be over. But as I can see it isn't. The people whom were acting like animals were not the police, but some in the crowed. What happened to Miss Snelgrove , was a tragic accident, an accident brought on by the actions of a group of people who were getting out of control. Pepper spray is used as a crowed control and normally is effective. What happened was tragic, but it was a accident. My brother is an officer, he has had to deal with similar situations. Under the kinds of situations that happened in Boston things escalates very quickly. The first course is always not to use any type of force, but unfortunately, when one mixes excitement with alcohol it can have some undesired effects on some people. What I would like to ask is what would you want the police to do? Would you want them to allow the people to keep burning cars and looting stores? Then you would be the one getting all whiny that the police didn't use some type of force to stop them...I mean if it were your car and your store You wouldn't be too happy they were being trashed or burned . With out our police men, Arnarchy would rule..Not a pretty picture.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
it's just very sad!

i feel for everyone involved; that young girl, her family and friends, and the cop who has to live the rest of his life with this incident hanging over him.
Police shows their true Color
23 Oct 2004
This young woman was there to enjoy the essence of life. The triumph of success. Unfortunely, her life was shorten by an untrained, ruthless police officer.

The police department will pay for this outrageous crime. Who is this pig that shoot people in the head? Police will find every excuse possible.....but we know what happened.
Re: No More Police Violence!
23 Oct 2004
"jumping on the hoods of cars is not punishable by death, ever." I don't know about that. I can think of a few cases. For example if the car was mine.
Joyle Doyle, get a brain.
24 Oct 2004
The only animals there were the police officers - they murdered, everyone else did not.

Let anarchy reign.
Re: No More Police Violence!
24 Oct 2004
I'm not defending the cops actions but you all refer to the police as pigs and what not but if your in trouble who are you going to call?
Re: No More Police Violence!
24 Oct 2004
You are truly an idiot. The cop fired a pepper pellet, which should do no more damage than a paintball. It was a tragic accident, but that's all it was -- an accident.
Re: No More Police Violence!
24 Oct 2004
jim writes:

"My daughter lives in the apartments where the riots took place. She was afraid they were going to set it on fire or worse yet, break into her apartment. Its too bad Victoria was hit and killed, I would rather see the morons jumping on the car lying in their own pool of blood. As the old saying goes you play, you pay. And by the way, Whompat needs to move to Russia and discover real state terrorism, or at least start medication immediately. "

Well jim, as it turns out it wasn't any of the knuckleheads that got killed that night but an innocent young woman that had nothing to do with the troublemakers. Why is that? Instead of the situation having been "you plau, you pay." it was more like "you play, and an innocent bystander pays." Why the apologetics for the BPD? Even the police commisioner admits that the BPD was responsible for what happened. The question is whether or not the cops responsible for the killing will actually be held responsible for what happened. I would go further, since the decision to deploy so-called "non-lethal" weapons was made by the top officials in the BPD, they too must be held responsible. If Police Commissioner O'Toole has any integrity she ought to be tending her resignation to the mayor.

Should I hold my breath while waiting for all the police officers and their superiors who were responsible for this incident to actually be held responsible?
Re: No More Police Violence!
25 Oct 2004
"I'm not defending the cops actions but you all refer to the police as pigs and what not but if your in trouble who are you going to call? "

How 'bout taking care of business yourself instead of being such a punk-ass? Pigs are dangerous animals and not to be trusted.

PEOPLE'S MILITIAS NOT PIGS
Re: No More Police Violence!
25 Oct 2004
If the police commissioner is to take full responsibility for the officer's actions, then she should resign and be charged with manslaughter!
Re: No More Police Violence!
25 Oct 2004
so true...we gotta stop this bullshit. We gotta stop the police state...
Re: No More Police Violence!
26 Oct 2004
This is really insane. You people want to blame the victim for the tradegy. Do you blame the woman who is raped? What they fuck is wrong with you?