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Commentary :: Human Rights : Media : Politics : Race
Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
26 Apr 2006
This is not about conspiracies or plots or fantasies or anti-Semitism -- it's about rational discussion of American interests. Alan Dershowitz, who seems to be easily upset, went totally ballistic...over the mild article ["The Israel Lobby"] by Mearsheimer and Walt, calling them "liars" and "bigots." And, in my case, being pro-Israel. I'm looking forward to hearing from all you [name-calling] *NUTJOBS* again.
April 25, 2006


MOLLY IVINS

Austin, Texas


Let's call the Israel lobby the Israel Lobby


One of the consistent deformities in American policy debate has been challenged by a couple of professors, and the reaction proves their point so neatly it's almost funny.

A working paper by John Mearsheimer, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, professor of international affairs at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, called "The Israel Lobby" was printed in the London Review of Books earlier this month. And all hell broke loose in the more excitable reaches of journalism and academe.

For having the sheer effrontery to point out the painfully obvious -- that there is an Israel lobby in the United States -- Mearsheimer and Walt have been accused of being anti-Semitic, nutty and guilty of "kooky academic work." Alan Dershowitz, who seems to be easily upset, went totally ballistic over the mild, academic, not to suggest pretty boring article by Mearsheimer and Walt, calling them "liars" and "bigots."

Of course there is an Israeli lobby in America -- its leading working group is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). It calls itself "America's Pro-Israel Lobby," and it attempts to influence U.S. legislation and policy.

Several national Jewish organizations lobby from time to time. Big deal -- why is anyone pretending this non-news requires falling on the floor and howling? Because of this weird deformity of debate.

In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel. In Israel, they have it as matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel.

Being pro-Israel is no defense, as I long ago learned to my cost. Now I've gotten used to it. Jews who criticize Israel are charmingly labeled "self-hating Jews." As I have often pointed out, that must mean there are a lot of self-hating Israelis, because those folks raise hell over their own government's policies all the time.

I don't know that I've ever felt intimidated by the knee-jerk "you're anti-Semitic" charge leveled at anyone who criticizes Israel, but I do know I have certainly heard it often enough to become tired of it.

And I wonder if that doesn't produce the same result: giving up on the discussion.

It's the sheer disproportion, the vehemence of the attacks on anyone perceived as criticizing Israel that makes them so odious. Mearsheimer and Walt are both widely respected political scientists -- comparing their writing to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is just silly.

Several critics have pointed out some flaws in the Mearsheimer-Walt paper, including a too-broad use of the term "Israel lobby" -- those of us who are pro-Israel differ widely -- and having perhaps overemphasized the clout of the Israel lobby by ignoring the energy lobby.

It seems to me the root of the difficulty has been Israel's inability first to admit the Palestinians have been treated unfairly and, second, to figure out what to do about it. Now here goes a big fat generalization, but I think many Jews are so accustomed (by reality) to thinking of themselves as victims, it is especially difficult for them to admit they have victimized others.

But the Mearsheimer-Walt paper is not about the basic conflict, but its effect on American foreign policy, and it appears to me their arguments are unexceptional. Israel is the No. 1 recipient of American foreign aid, and it seems an easy case can be made that the United States has subjugated its own interests to those of Israel in the past.

Whether you agree or not, it is a discussion well worth having and one that should not be shut down before it can start by unfair accusations of "anti-Semitism." In a very equal sense, none of this is academic. The Israel lobby was overwhelmingly in favor of starting the war with Iraq and is now among the leading hawks on Iran.

To the extent that our interests do differ from those of Israel, the matter needs to be discussed calmly and fairly. This is not about conspiracies or plots or fantasies or anti-Semitism -- it's about rational discussion of American interests. And, in my case, being pro-Israel. I'm looking forward to hearing from all you nutjobs again.



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Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
26 Apr 2006
why doesn't anyone worry about the Saudi/Kuwait/Opec lobby. They are the ones driving working people into 3 jobs or bankruptcy. The Arabs will hate the Jews no matter what the US does, or for that matter whatever Israel does, short of shutting down completely. I know there are readers out there who would like that, but nations usually don't take suicide as a serious option.

Seriously guys, go after the monopolists of OPEC!! You can tie them to the nefarious Bush family, the World Bank and everyother international financial interest in the exchanges around the world. A Real Conspiracy! ouneoreantio h
Re: Let's call the Jewish Lobby
26 Apr 2006
The place is called Palestine. Who cares what europeans and people from new jersey call their latest development project. Its a militarized disco for jews only on stolen land and as such should be opposed as a racist genocidal project. The soliders and their colonist parents share only one thing in common with each other and the land. They are Jewish and they are tresspassing.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
26 Apr 2006
The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population.
>
>They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
>
>Literature:
>1988 - Najib Mahfooz.
>
>Peace:
>1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
>1994 - Yaser Arafat
>
>Physics:
>1990 - Elias James Corey
>1999 - Ahmed Zewail
>
>Medicine:
>1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
>1998 - Ferid Mourad
>
>The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
>
>Literature:
>1910 - Paul Heyse
>1927 - Henri Bergson
>1958 - Boris Pasternak
>1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
>1966 - Nelly Sachs
>1976 - Saul Bellow
>1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
>1981 - Elias Canetti
>1987 - Joseph Brodsky
>1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
>
>Peace:
>1911 - Alfred Fried
>1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
>1968 - Rene Cassin
>1973 - Henry Kissinger
>1978 - Menachem Begin
>1986 - ElieWiesel
>1994 - Shimon Peres
>1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
>
>Physics:
>1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
>1906 - Henri Moissan
>1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
>1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
>1910 - Otto Wallach
>1915 - Richard Willstaetter
>1918 - Fritz Haber
>1921 - Albert Einstein
>1922 - Niels Bohr
>1925 - James Franck
>1925 - Gustav Hertz
>1943 - Gustav Stern
>1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
>1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
>1952 - Felix Bloch
>1954 - Max Born
>1958 - Igor Tamm
>1959 - Emilio Segre
>1960 - Donald A. Glaser
>1961 - Robert Hofstadter
>1961 - Melvin Calvin
>1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
>1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
>1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
>1965 - Julian Schwinger
>1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
>1971 - Dennis Gabor
>1972 - William Howard Stein
>1973 - Brian David Josephson
>1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
>1976 - Burton Richter
>1977 - Ilya Prigogine
>1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
>1978 - Peter L Kapitza
>1979 - Stephen Weinberg
>1979 - Sheldon Glashow
>1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
>1980 - Paul Berg
>1980 - Walter Gilbert
>1981 - Roald Hoffmann
>1982 - Aaron Klug
>1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
>1985 - Jerome Karle
>1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
>1988 - Robert Huber
>1988 - Leon Lederman
>1988 - Melvin Schwartz
>1988 - Jack Steinberger
>1989 - Sidney Altman
>1990 - Jerome Friedman
>1992 - Rudolph Marcus
>1995 - Martin Perl
>2000 - Alan J. Heeger
>
>Economics:
>1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
>1971 - Simon Kuznets
>1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
>1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
>1976 - Milton Friedman
>1978 - Herbert A. Simon
>1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
>1985 - Franco Modigliani
>1987 - Robert M. Solow
>1990 - Harry Markowitz
>1990 - Merton Miller
>1992 - Gary Becker
>1993 - Robert Fogel
>
>Medicine:
>1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
>1908 - Paul Erlich
>1914 - Robert Barany
>1922 - Otto Meyerhof
>1930 - Karl Landsteiner
>1931 - Otto Warburg
>1936 - Otto Loewi
>1944 - Joseph Erlanger
>1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
>1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
>1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
>1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
>1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
>1953 - Hans Krebs
>1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
>1958 - Joshua Lederberg
>1959 - Arthur Kornberg
>1964 - KonradBloch
>1965 - Francois Jacob
>1965 - Andre Lwoff
>1967 - George Wald
>1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
>1969 - Salvador Luria
>1970 - Julius Axelrod
>1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
>1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
>1975 - Howard Martin Temin
>1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
>1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
>1978 - Daniel Nathans
>1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
>1984 - Cesar Milstein
>1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
>1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
>1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
>1988 - Gertrude Elion
>1989 - Harold Varmus
>1991 - Erwin Neher
>1991 - Bert Sakmann
>1993 - Richard J. Roberts
>1993 - Phillip Sharp
>1994 - Alfred Gilman
>1995 - Edward B. Lewis
>
>The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge; the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims.
>
>The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics; the Jews don't traffic slaves , nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.
>
>The Jews don't have the economic strength of petroleum, nor the possibilities to force the world's media to see "their side" of the question.
>
>Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems. CNN
Israel and US interest
26 Apr 2006
MOLLY IVINS:
"it seems an easy case can be made that the United States has subjugated its own interests to those of Israel in the past."

What "US interest" are we talking about here? The interest of US workers is clearly different from the interest of the US ruling class. It's the US ruling class together with other Western elites which wants to colonize the middle east. They've been trying to do it for almost a millenium and now with Israel's help they have a strong foothold. Western imperialism is the master, Israel is the footsoldier and we are all being taken for a ride.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
26 Apr 2006
Saudi and other Muslim lobbies do exist. But if they were activly soliciting support for a war of conquest, like Zionist lobbies have done and still do, there would be those who rally against them, as we now see those rallying against dual loyalists of Zionism.

In the current intifada, over 400000 Zionists packed up and left Zionist occupied palestine. They have proven to the whole world, including ZIonists, that liberation of palestine is not equatable with "suicide". Only the most pathetic of propagandists still use that old chessnut.

Jews could win every Nobel prize ever presented. It still wouldn't give them a birthright of murderous theft of even 1 single rock in Palestine. Not 1 single rock. And you thought the ubbermensch mentality died out with the Nazis? According to JEWS RULES'S post. To him/her, being such better people gives Zionists a birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands.

Muslims don't blame Jews for all thier problems. But they can see clearly enough that Zionists are murderous thieves of Palestinian lands. And that western interloapers seek to benafit from the offense of ZIonism.

Quid pro Quo. The Zionist crusader's and western ruling class's relationship is a simbiotic one. They both look for profit from offenses against Muslim peoples.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
26 Apr 2006
Boy that just cut the prestige out of that goldplated tin button. Do jews ever tire of talking about about how great jews are and giving each other prizes for being smart jews, beautiful jews and strong jews?
Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
27 Apr 2006
The article is well written and makes good points. If you don't like the Irish Repbublican Army that doesn't mean your anti-Irish, if you don't like the Basque Liberation Front, that doesn't mean you are against Basques, many people who are against Israels occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank and general treatment of the Palistinians are not "anti-Jewish" or anti-semitic.

That being said some of the posts here have an element that seems to mirror Dershowitzs frenzied demonization of the entire " enemy" civilian population.

The rights of Palistinians will never be won by people who think they can out match the Israelis with violence. Only a movement that champions the rights of innocent civilians on BOTH sides will overcome the many other obsticals. Arab, Jew, Black, White, Workers of the World Unite....
Ah, yes! The Jews: "The Superior Race!" ...The Arabs/Muslims: "the untermenschen".
27 Apr 2006
by Jews Rule (26 Apr 2006): ">The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes..."
"The Superior Race" _deserves_ to take historic Palestine from the Palestinians:
27 Apr 2006
like European colonialists everywhere in history, they can make better use of the land!
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
27 Apr 2006
"Rabbi Sneersohn and a large body of his friends in this and other countries look to our government to take the initiative in accomplishing for the Israelites of Jerusalem what they have secured for Germans in Germany and Chinese in China. The Holy Land is the "Fatherland" of the Israelites."

"I shall look into this matter with care.Ulysses S. Grant and the Palestinian Envoy"

http://www.jewish-history.com/civilwar/usgrant.htm
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
27 Apr 2006
Well for such a smart bunch of people who are accused on committing mass Genocide the Jews are doing a lousy job of it. Since they have been responsbible for the lands the arabs live on the arab poplulation has increased by more than 5 times their origional population. The arabs live longer, their infant mortality has dropped. The arabs have seen an increase in the number of schools and seen universities where none existed previously when they were under the domination of the Egyptians and Jordanians.

Those facts and many more disprove yet again the tired lies that the arabs and their ignorant supporters keep telling.
And WHY was he traveling with so much Cash?? Corruption
27 Apr 2006
$450,000 said stolen from PA foreign minister during visit to Kuwait.

Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar has had $450,000 stolen from his hotel room during his current visit to Kuwait, the Itim news agency quoted the Kuwaiti media as saying Wednesday.

According to the report, al-Zahar had asked the Kuwaiti authorities to keep the theft under wraps, but the incident was confirmed by a security official at the hotel.

The foreign minister, a senior member of Hamas, is on a tour of Arab and Muslim countries to drum up funds after Israel suspended the transfer of tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority and Western donors cut off aid to the Hamas-led government.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
27 Apr 2006
Of course it was the JOOOOOS that stole the money.

Oh wait - no JOOOOS in Kuwait.

Probably some Palistinian maid. Oh wait, Kuwait threw them out after the 1st Iraq war.

You don't think some Moslem would steal from another do you?

How much did he lose at the poker table or was this money spent on all those hookers?
"The Holy Land is the "Fatherland" of the Israelites."
27 Apr 2006
Heil the Süperior Race!

Heil the Jüdisch Fatherlandt!

Heil Jüdisch Labensraum!

Heil Israel!!

.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
27 Apr 2006
>The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population.
>
>They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
>
>Literature:
>1988 - Najib Mahfooz.
>
>Peace:
>1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
>1994 - Yaser Arafat
>
>Physics:
>1990 - Elias James Corey
>1999 - Ahmed Zewail
>
>Medicine:
>1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
>1998 - Ferid Mourad
>
>The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population. They have received the following Nobel Prizes:
>
>Literature:
>1910 - Paul Heyse
>1927 - Henri Bergson
>1958 - Boris Pasternak
>1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
>1966 - Nelly Sachs
>1976 - Saul Bellow
>1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
>1981 - Elias Canetti
>1987 - Joseph Brodsky
>1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
>
>Peace:
>1911 - Alfred Fried
>1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
>1968 - Rene Cassin
>1973 - Henry Kissinger
>1978 - Menachem Begin
>1986 - ElieWiesel
>1994 - Shimon Peres
>1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
>
>Physics:
>1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
>1906 - Henri Moissan
>1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
>1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
>1910 - Otto Wallach
>1915 - Richard Willstaetter
>1918 - Fritz Haber
>1921 - Albert Einstein
>1922 - Niels Bohr
>1925 - James Franck
>1925 - Gustav Hertz
>1943 - Gustav Stern
>1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
>1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
>1952 - Felix Bloch
>1954 - Max Born
>1958 - Igor Tamm
>1959 - Emilio Segre
>1960 - Donald A. Glaser
>1961 - Robert Hofstadter
>1961 - Melvin Calvin
>1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
>1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
>1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
>1965 - Julian Schwinger
>1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
>1971 - Dennis Gabor
>1972 - William Howard Stein
>1973 - Brian David Josephson
>1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
>1976 - Burton Richter
>1977 - Ilya Prigogine
>1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
>1978 - Peter L Kapitza
>1979 - Stephen Weinberg
>1979 - Sheldon Glashow
>1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
>1980 - Paul Berg
>1980 - Walter Gilbert
>1981 - Roald Hoffmann
>1982 - Aaron Klug
>1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
>1985 - Jerome Karle
>1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
>1988 - Robert Huber
>1988 - Leon Lederman
>1988 - Melvin Schwartz
>1988 - Jack Steinberger
>1989 - Sidney Altman
>1990 - Jerome Friedman
>1992 - Rudolph Marcus
>1995 - Martin Perl
>2000 - Alan J. Heeger
>
>Economics:
>1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
>1971 - Simon Kuznets
>1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
>1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
>1976 - Milton Friedman
>1978 - Herbert A. Simon
>1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
>1985 - Franco Modigliani
>1987 - Robert M. Solow
>1990 - Harry Markowitz
>1990 - Merton Miller
>1992 - Gary Becker
>1993 - Robert Fogel
>
>Medicine:
>1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
>1908 - Paul Erlich
>1914 - Robert Barany
>1922 - Otto Meyerhof
>1930 - Karl Landsteiner
>1931 - Otto Warburg
>1936 - Otto Loewi
>1944 - Joseph Erlanger
>1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
>1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
>1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
>1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
>1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
>1953 - Hans Krebs
>1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
>1958 - Joshua Lederberg
>1959 - Arthur Kornberg
>1964 - KonradBloch
>1965 - Francois Jacob
>1965 - Andre Lwoff
>1967 - George Wald
>1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
>1969 - Salvador Luria
>1970 - Julius Axelrod
>1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
>1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
>1975 - Howard Martin Temin
>1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
>1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
>1978 - Daniel Nathans
>1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
>1984 - Cesar Milstein
>1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
>1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
>1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
>1988 - Gertrude Elion
>1989 - Harold Varmus
>1991 - Erwin Neher
>1991 - Bert Sakmann
>1993 - Richard J. Roberts
>1993 - Phillip Sharp
>1994 - Alfred Gilman
>1995 - Edward B. Lewis
>
>The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge; the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims.
>
>The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics; the Jews don't traffic slaves , nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.
>
>The Jews don't have the economic strength of petroleum, nor the possibilities to force the world's media to see "their side" of the question.
>
>Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems. CNN
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
28 Apr 2006
The PA stole $450000? Well, if that doesn't give ZIonists a birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands, nothing would.

How about the trillions missing from the US Department of Defense? Does that give Zionists a birthright of murderous theft of US lands?

Palestinian population increase? BLack slaves also had a population increase under white ownership. Doesn't mean slavery was any less of an offense wither.

Just how many Palestinians have to be killed by Zionist crusaders and thier war of conquest before the Zionist crusaders qualify as murderous thieves??? You obviously think all the palestinians. I say just 1.

Your crap rationalizations just shoewcase your own vile prejudices.
Re: Let's call the Israel lobby THE ISRAEL LOBBY – by MOLLY IVINS
28 Apr 2006
Jews, jew jews jews
Jews, jews jews jews
I'm not an anti-semite but I hate
Jews, jews jews jews
Er I mean The Israeli Occupation foreces of peaceloving palestinian land by the Zionist mossad agents of International dominatoion of the media and dental floss
And NO, when I sazy I hate JEWS, i don't really mean J-E-W-S
As you can see, we have some of those Zionist NUTJOBS around here:
28 Apr 2006
They frequent indymedia comment posts. Kelly, Drool, Encore, AliBabi, Off the Wire, and Jews Rule are perfect examples.

Of course, all of them - except Kelly - are probably just ONE person.
What you don't understand, Stanley
28 Apr 2006
What you don't understand, Stanley

it's me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, I think that it's kind of racist to assume that the American ruling class is only composed of WASPs. That's Zionist Stephen Zunes argument: 'It's all the white GENTILES' doing/fault, manipulating the (stupid) Jews' and then blaming the international/Mideast mess/backlash on them. Poor little Israel, and once again the Jews, have just been the hapless kickball of the white WASPs. The GENTILES made us do it!'

Second, as Chomsky being a Zionist himself (while claiming that he's an
"anarchist" to throw the left off), you have to understand that he's going to engage in _MISDIRECTION_, as he has for decades about this; this, as well as hypocrisy, in that Chomsky held the South African apartheid government itself responsible for *its* brutal oppression, not just the American ruling class -- e.g, Reagan's twice-elected administration in particular -- and not just world capitalism.

Aside from that, ivory tower theorist professors often rarely know how
government (or anything practical) really operates. What has Chomsky done
that has ever been practical? I don't think that he has even led (or co-led) any marches. Has he ever spoken at any anti-war marches? He's never planned (or helped plan) any social movements. Hell, there is that prominent lecturer at Yale (his name escapes me right now, but I can look it up later, as he was recently on the Charlie Rose show a few weeks ago) -- also an anarchist -- who has *principally* helped to actually *organize* -- and be there at -- anti-WTO, anti-"Globalization", anti-"free trade" marches in various cities around the world, and has participated in anti-war marches.

(Just as the promulgators of "the Patriot Act" -- to set up, at the least, a police surveillance state that the Soviets could have only envied, and all-but eviscerate the 4th Amendment -- would come dressed as, well, _God-loving patriots_, the _best_ and most sophisticated defender of "a Jewish state", Zionism, would come dressed up as "a _left leftist_"! As the Bible, or some theologian, said, the Devil will come dressed as an angel, all the better to *fool* you.)

Now (how many times do I have to re-explain this to you), the creators of
PNAC are also full-fledged members of the ruling class and many (if not
most) of them are American Zionist Jewish officials in conservative American "think tanks", government, and academia -- not to mention in the formal Israel lobby, AIPAC, presently or formerly.

Now, OF COURSE, Zionists and the Israel lobby would never go _against_ "the [WASP] ruling class. Zionists, the Israel lobby, and the [WASP] ruling class (if you want to pretend to separate them) ARE **ALL** IMPERIALISTS. They just have DIFFERENT STRATEGIES in the Middle East! So, to separate "the ruling class" from the pro-Israel Zionist Jews who are *OBVIOUSLY* a part of it is *ridiculous*!


The Israel lobby wants the ruling class strategy to be centered ENTIRELY
around Israel: i.e., it's an ISRAELOCENTRIC IMPERIALISTS ruling class
strategy. The PRO-ISRAEL IMPERIALISTS faction of the ruling class want to
stomp around the Middle East like a bull in a China shop -- into Iraq, Iran, Syria, and anyplace else they can -- arrogantly waving the blue & white with the Star of David.

The Brzezinsky faction of the ruling class -- let's call them THE BRZEZINSKY IMPERIALISTS -- don't want an ENTIRELY, UNEQUIVOCAL Israelocentric imperialist foreign policy because they think that's too, as I said above [in an earlier post], HAM-FISTED and will ANTAGONIZE too many people in the Middle East and too many Muslims in the world. It will ALIENATE too many (especially Middle Eastern and Muslim) people in the world who's governments the Brzezinksy imperialists want to co-opt, just like it has before everywhere else, even in the Mideast.

Now, as you correctly analyze above, the ruling class needs to be able to
debate this strategy (including among its "embedded intellectuals") --
ESPECIALLY AS THIS STRATEGY IS _FALLING APART_ IN IRAQ AND HAS SHOWN ITSELF TO BE *CRAZED* IN TALK ABOUT ATTACKING IRAN (and while our hands are *quite* full in Iraq, thank you) -- without "respected" profressors -- even an academic DEAN -- at the most ELITE universities being called "idiotic", "rabid anti-Semites", "plagiarists" (and called so even by Dershowitz!), etc..

Alterman, Ivins, and -- surprise -- even Mearsheimer and Walt (and you don't get to be a academic DEAN of a *government* school at Harvard by being a flaming liberal) -- ARE ALL AT SOME IDEOLOGICAL OR CASUAL LEVEL POLITICALLY PRO-ISRAEL. Mearsheimer and Walt are *SUPPORTERS* of Amerian imperialism -- it's "embedded intellectuals" (you have never heard/read them speak out _against_ it, have you?).

Ivins is a *MAINSTREAM* liberal pro-Democrat party LONG-TIME *PROFESSIONAL* *syndicated* columnist: she would **NEVER** call Zionist Jewish members of the _Israel_ lobby *"NUTJOBS"* unless she were given the green light to do so -- and even by that word/sentence *NOT* being edited out of her column. And she'll get political and livelihood _PROTECTION_ from the "NUTJOBS" by the establishment (who won't let the RABID ZIONIST JEWISH LOBBY "NUTJOBS" destroy her livelihood and syndication, as they normally would so attack any other person with visible public status who spoke out against them).

Likewise, Harvard law professor Dershowitz has also been PUT ON **NOTICE** by (and through) Ivins syndicated crack against him, *NOT* to go around calling *PROMINENT* pro-imperialist professors at the nation's most *ELITE* academic institutions (especially at *Harvard*) "idiotic" or "looney" or "rabid anti-Semites" or whatever else CRAZED LIKUDNIK DERSHOWITZ called them. Which is why Chomsky didn't even *DARE* to so much as vaguely *HINT/INSINUATE* that M/W were anti-Semitic, in professor Chomsky's backhand dismissal of their report on Democracy Now.

Like most continental or world wars were INTER-IMPERIALIST conflicts, this debate *within* the U.S. ruling class is a domestic INTRA-IMPERIALIST factional conflict -- not about IMPERIALISM, but about WHO'S STRATEGY IS RIGHT.

(Now I typed this kind of fast, so you'll have to let me know if you *STILL* don't get it.)

Now, *STOP* drinking the Chomsky ("ignore the lobby..., ignore the lobby..., ignore the lobby...") cult Cool Aid instead of of parroting someone else's abstract theoretical doctrinal construct devoid of how things actually work in the _REAL_ world, instead of just in Chomsky's Ivory Tower office and classrooms.

(Do you remember construction/real-estate magnate Rodney Dangerfield's
comment in the professor's class on urban administration, or was it a
business class, in Back To School, when the prof was spinning out his pet
theory on urban development?: "Yeah, I know [where that abstraction works] how 'bout *Fantasyland*!")